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Recommended context for next Interview: Stevie Baskin's long video on Metadeception (YouTube) (Patreon)

Published:
2026-04-04 06:30:15
Imported:
2026-04
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Content

Hey everyone,

Our next interview episode is with Stevie Baskin, the creator of a 5-hour(!) debunking of Oz Pearlman and, more broadly, a critique of the field of mentalism. For those not from America, think Derren Brown!

I would encourage anyone interested to watch (at least some of) the video before the interview for useful context.

There is also a shorter debate with Scott Barry Kaufman, though it somewhat assumes you understand the contours of the debate: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkUAfDe_ZwY

Bad Stats recommended this video to me, describing it as a "masterpiece." I would agree, in terms of thorough debunking videos.

I also raised some of the same questions myself back in my younger skeptic years, see here: https://godknowswhat.wordpress.com/2009/09/26/is-derren-brown-a-skeptic/

Anyway, the interview will be out shortly so take a look if you are interested!

Files

metadeception: the truth about oz pearlman

the revolution will not be monetised 00:10:26 - One: Flabbergasted 00:21:33 - Two: Do it one way. 00:37:22 - Three: Do it another... 00:48:56 - Four: No time with the books. 01:07:01 - Replaced Title Card. 01:17:59 - Six: Déjà vu 01:35:20 - Seven: Random random random 01:40:00 - Eight: Is it really scrolling? 01:52:32 - Nine: It would be a magic show. 02:02:12 - Ten: Totally kidding 02:21:11 - Eleven: Then do it another way. 02:47:38 - Twelve: Google yourself 03:10:33 - Thirteen: The Wonderful World of Highly-Specialised Gimmicks 03:25:02 - Fourteen: Hey! Cut that out! 03:34:16 - Fifteen: Dual Reality on steroids. 03:40:52 - Sixteen: The other side. 03:44:49 - Seventeen: A voice in your head. 03:49:12 - Eighteen: The Equally-Wonderful World of Inadvertent Gimmicks. 03:59:31 - Nineteen: The Window Comes From The View 04:12:42 - Twenty: Honest Abe. 04:24:55 - Twenty-One: Mark Clouse. Campbell Soup. 04:41:41 - Twenty-Two: Pink Panther. 04:50:05 - Twenty-Three: The Law. thank you http://youtube.com/@biglunchclub for your thoughtful advice on the intro and title. DMs: http://instagram.com/steviebaskin

Comments

DudeNah

Oh hell yea

Par 🇨🇦

Reading through some of those 2009 atheist debates on your WordPress really takes me back. And the 911 debates. References to loose change in popular mechanics. Fantastic stuff.

DudeNah

Still here. I’m an hour in and this is pure gold. 🙂🙂

Jesse Rimler

Is there a reason he refers to Uri Geller as a ‘jewish magician’?

Ymirsdreams

I was out early on my way to hospital to see my mother when a small man in an ankle length thermal coat marched up to me and immediately started talking: "Mate, you know me right, you've seen me around, anyway, my friend who drives that white BMW you've seen around here suddenly got a phone call and turfed me out, you've had that happen to you right, when you have to get out of a car suddenly, anyway the daft sod took off with my phone and wallet..." With every 'right' he lightly struck me on the chest and nodded, attempting to lock eye contact. At the fourth tap I said: "I'm in a rush", turned on my heel and marched on. I felt like saying 'NLP is bullshit you wasted your money' but I really was in a rush.

john statham

Our deputy leader recommending a FIVE hour show over Easter! It’s what Jesus would’ve wanted.

Zack

I loved this video so much. It randomly appeared on my feed once then was deleted before reappearing!

Don Schaffner

I love the fact that Chris used to have a blog. Some of those Spam comments are truly hilarious.

Damien

Looking forward to this.

Rich F

Been watching this. The time flies. Im not sure yet if it goes into anything other than the thorough, good-humoured analysis of how Oz does what he does. Hes really good at it tho, isn't he? Im not looking for any spoilers about the upcoming interview, but i can see how Baskins content here is fairly... er... adjacent(?) to what DTG does... should be good i reckon.

DJM

As an amateur magician myself, I’m very interested here. Mentalism definitely has some baggage, but mentalists have long been comfortable letting ppl believe false explanations. It’s part of the act a lot of the times.

Ole S. J.

I’m ashamed - I watched the whole five hours. Good video, good points. I agree that there are issues in his representation of his "tricks" (with or without the book sale). The TED talk did it for me. Interested to see where the guy's take it.

Ole S. J.

This made me think of Nathan Fielder’s shows (which enjoy). The methods do not seem identical to what Oz is doing, but they strike me as similar in at least one respect. From the audience’s point of view, the actors do not appear to be in on the joke. From the actors’ point of view, however, they know they are participating in an HBO show. The comparison may not fully hold. The show is openly absurd, however the idea of reading people can be just as absurd to some and not to others.

DJM

There are actually some kernels of good stuff in NLP that made their way into modern evidence-based practice. EMDR is a big example.

DJM

Have not watched Baskins video, but what is the issue with a known magician realizing that marketing mentalism as “ reading people” is way more lucrative and then running with that?

DJM

Okay- have not watched all 5 hours. A few things: - the prestige was a great movie/book. It had little to do with how magicians actually think or perform. It’s like linking memento with cognitive science. Overlap, sure? -I’m not sure there’s really such a thing as meta deception. Magicians fool people as part of what they do. How they sell it is part of the show. Calling a pit boss up for a gambling demo (Michael Ammar did this) or a firearms expert up for a bullet catch ( Penn and Teller did this), is part of the show and sells a false explanation. Ammar isn’t actually cheating and Penn and teller aren’t killing each other. That’s showmanship, no? That’s also kind of Darren Browns act. He was also known as a magician before pivoting to mentalism. To Browns credit, sometimes he tongue in cheek tips the magic principle he used while performing one of his pieces.

DJM

Bottom line: showmanship and deception can overlap

DJM

A good magician will embed false solutions and layers of deception into what they are doing. I’m not an Oz Perlman fan, but I just find the presenters lack of magic knowledge a bit much.

DJM

Hi Chris- thanks for your comments. I like this subject. I’d argue that meta deception isn’t much of a thing so much as there’s just deception. Plenty of people did believe David Blaine had some kind of special powers. It’s really in the eyes of the audience. The difference is the material. Mentalism is inherently suggesting some kind of invisible ability/power. Is it the mentalists job to say “this is really just a trick?” In other words, I don’t think meta deception isn’t much radically different than magic/showmanship. Houdini was also very probe to exaggerating false methods, and this grew his legend a lot.

DJM

Prone