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S4E13.5: Conclave (Patreon)

Published:
2025-05-08 16:28:20
Edited:
2025-05-08 16:29:25
Imported:
2026-06

Content

Talking about popes is extremely in vogue right now for some reason, so we chose this as the ideal time to talk about Conclave (2024). And, we figured it would be in the public interest to put this one out on the free feed. So please, enjoy nearly two full hours of Popechat.

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FREE PALESTINE

Hey, Devon here. As you well know I've been working with a few gazan families to raise money for their daily living costs in the genocide. Thanks to your incredible generosity, we've been able to raise the money to register Ahmed and his family for evacuation from Gaza. I truly, truly cannot thank you enough. I hope the wait is short and I'm able to tell you that he's safe in Egypt very soon. Here are three more campaigns from trusted sources. Each of these are for a family that need your help. If you're able to help them out at all, it would mean the world.https://chuffed.org/project/121901-help-mahers-family-with-medical-costshttps://chuffed.org/project/128691-help-my-family-evacuate-gaza-war-zonehttps://chuffed.org/project/130802-help-rashas-family-in-gaza-evacuate-and-live

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WEB DESIGN ALERT

Tom Allen is a friend of the show (and the designer behind our website). If you need web design help, reach out to him here:  https://www.tomallen.media/

Kill James Bond is hosted by November Kelly, Abigail Thorn, and Devon. You can find us at https://killjamesbond.com 

Files

Comments

Disappointed Bear

I can't believe this posted right as the white smoke happened

Mizzen

Insane timing

Wydkrov

Lol, just in time for the real one to finish!

EndOfTour

Whoa I watched this like last week, what great timing

P.A.L.

Perfect timing

uberperk

Serendipitous timing

Violet Austerlitz

It was nice of the College of Cardinals to pick a new Pope for this episode

Heather

Its Pope Devon isn't it

J

Was the timing on purpose? I'm so impressed

Clef (they-them)

Dropped *during the white smoke* is legendary timing

Ros

🤌🤌 the TIMING

Justine

God bless

James Rule

Ready for the ravings of a mad woman? It's why I'm here!

NowhereMan661

I have been waiting for this episode for a month.

Whitney Wolverine

Literally got this notification less than five minutes after the white smoke showed up!

Emilio Porras Vergara

This is like Constantine seeing the cross in the sky. People have been made saints for less than this.

Tripp

What's the most important part of a good jotimingke

Clef (they-them)

Listening and off the bat I'm surprised that none of the hosts seem as repulsed by this movie as I was imo it was a Sorkinesque libwashing of a deeply conservative institution? But extremely well made and acted

Emilio Porras Vergara

This might be the first podcast episode released in the new papacy.

mortran

Literally as the smoke started!

Ysa

THEEE day the new pope is elected. stunning timing ladies and Devon

Zack Blair

can confirm, the tucci brand cookware is pretty nice.

Elle Memory

two for two with the lathe, putting more manifestation of the Season of the American President Under Fire

Zipzapzop

Ken Russell’s the devils for religion season

Clef (they-them)

(incredibly disappointed that the followup to Pope Francis is Pope Bob the American who dislikes LGBT+ and covered up sexual abuse)

Desmond Gonzalez

Once my dad said "Cheesus Christ" and I responded with "Queso Cristo" and I think it killed him.

Tariq Moustapha

I didn't have November's Maga/Reform turn on my bingo card.

David

You did this without Dr Eleanor Yanega!?!? 😭

Anne Romines

LOL releasing the podcast immediately made them end the conclave.

Evelyn Miner

real. i like nova and dev but they got way to soft on the catholic fuckin church somehow. like surely as communists we understand that personal niceties don't excuse participation in one of the great evils of history right

Werewere

HOLY MOLEY THE TIMING

Werewere

Fire up the lathe again for other things

Dr. Violence

So, despite having only one uni-level Latin course, and having learned all the rest from reading medieval English legal material, I'm mildly surprised at just how much of that intro I actually understood.

t o r t

American Pope 😣

mimsycast

She conk on my clave til my smoke turns white

BauHausofLabour

The fact that this came out the DAY they picked a new Pope is insane

Victor

As a generational atheist, I love Abigails disregard for religious hubbub so much 🤣 The pageantry, the bullshit. It means nothing to me, so to hear her respond similarly is wonderful 🤣

lol nope

Did you upload the conclave review when you saw the white smoke or what?

Tall Jeff

LOVE Devon's "it is crucial" joke. That's good clean etymology humor to warm a linguist's heart

Bryce3dKeygen.midi

They actually filmed part of it in the Royal Palace of Caserta which is the Naboo palace from Phantom Menace. My autistic ass clocked the staircases in a nanosecond 😄

Wolfman Jack

MAD GOD by Phil Tippett. I know someone already mentioned it, but I'd love to see you all discuss it.

Wolfman Jack

I do love the idea of popes having a special, secret, teenagers-at-a-sleepover handshake 🤝 ✝️

Clef (they-them)

Okay...finished and I have Thoughts The real Catholic church has a very clear stance on priests (only "biological men") with unclear definitions around what that entails. Having a womb and XX chromosomes would likely put Innocent on the "biological woman" side of that, but I'm no theologian. However, Catholic doctrine explicitly says that the "correction of genital abnormalities" does not count as a sex change and is allowed, so presumably going through with the hysterectomy would be more Catholic than not. As the hosts correctly pointed out the fact that Innocent is intersex is *going* to become public knowledge. Devon also praised that the movie shows that resolution happened without needing to show the audience how it happened. In my opinion that's a huge weakness of the script, because the movie doesn't even try to articulate how Catholicism will deal with the idea of an intersex Pope. By having the question resolved offscreen the movie cowardly avoids having to take a stance at all. Innocent exists in a superposition of 'secretly intersex' and 'intersex is fine actually' and 'trad liberal' and 'popular' and 'secret outsider'. It's the Catholic equivalent of when Ralph Fiennes gestured at the Thames and said "I believe in this". Here's how an intersex Pope would actually go down: 24 hours after the credits roll, a billion Catholics have a schism at the idea of a proudly intersex Pope. The cardinals demand a new conclave and put Innocent on trial. If Innocent prioritizes the health of the church, he resigns, and Tedesco or someone similar becomes a new Pope within months. If Innocent sticks by his principles, he's removed from office by either trial or by assassination. The framing of the end of the movie as a happy ending only works in a world and church that do not exist. A heartfelt speech and a calm conversation solve all the problems. It's peak lib fantasy.

P.A.L.

Considering your name includes the terms "Professional Knife Girl" I think we could probably specify the crimes right easy.

Mar

What a fucking intro

Mickey Foster

I’m actually going to Rome next month, think I’ll miss the conclave though 🥲 (ps anyone had any luck getting Colosseum tickets? 🙏)

QuoProSquids

it feels very strange listening to this at a time when the overwhelming reaction online to Pope Leo XIV is digging up his old, Bellini-esque tweets that suggest staunch opposition to the Tedescos of the world but little in the way of a coherent or compelling vision. Hope Leo proves himself as being more than just "not conservative"

Morgan LeFay Dethen

Oh white smoke from the Sistine Chapel, looks like KJB dropped a new episode.

lousullivan.bf

It is interesting that Benitez’ arguably pro-trans position of accepting himself as God made him is still him deciding that it would be wrong to change the body that God gave him, which you can also read as very much anti-trans. I’ve seen many people use variations on that line of thought to argue against gender-affirming surgery, which Innocent getting the hysterectomy would arguably have been.

Luca

Loving your perspective on the movie and thrilled to see some solid Italian actors getting recognized but I'm grinding my teeth every time you mispronounce "papabile". It's "papAbile", or even better "papAbbile" for extra-Roman inflection.

Robert Young

They were filmed at the Royal Palace of Caserta, in Naples. I don't think the Vatican allows filming in its borders, except documentaries.

Robert Young

A lot of the exteriors were shot around Rome, from what I recognize.

Saint Muerte

I'm sure they would give a great analysis of that film.

Luca

Yes, to me it felt more like a way of saying that the Church needs to recognize and reconcile with the (cis) women that are already part of it than any real statement on gender transition.

Robert Young

The Sistine Chapel scenes were all filmed on a set, which was combined with digital mat paintings. Thanks Japanese TV network which funded the restoration in the late 70s and early 80s, there are amazing, high-quality images of every inch of the frescoes available, so it's a really easy space to duplicate if you have the money.

Jasmijn Wellner

Take me on a trip, I'd like to go some day Take me to New York, I'd love to see LA I really want to come kick it with you You'll be my American pope American pope

Dellamoux

"You cannot... Break the seal of the confessional" WA state: You sure about that?

Jasmijn Wellner

Maybe, but I don't think directly transposing that from an intersex story about self-acceptance to a transgender story about denial like that is the most logical application, in the same way you wouldn't transpose a story about a trans woman saying e.g. "being a man is wrong for me, I need to be a woman" to a story about a trans man saying that same thing word for word.

Luca

Very true. Maybe a better phrasing is that to me the movie avoids making a clear statement on transition and that Benitez's "condition" is used as a stand-in for The Feminine/The Other/The Complexity of the World Outside the Church.

Brian Danger Hicks

The best part of Conclave was when he said "IT'S CONCLAVIN' TIME" and conclaved all over those guys

Mildly invested

of course the vaping cardinal had to be the picture, love it

Gil the Gilded Dragon

I've been spending too long in the magic books cause I understood that

Gil the Gilded Dragon

Wait is Kier Starmer Opus Dei? I thought yall islanders couldn't do properly

Gil the Gilded Dragon

Yes to do the lathe one must not consciously seek it. Hence get Abigail to do Wanpyr Hypnosis on you

Gil the Gilded Dragon

Oh yeah Franscis was SUPER worried abt getting assassinated or so I have heard

Gil the Gilded Dragon

Oh this is why the cath thing. The ecclesia is the total body of believers. The church is its members. Thus if church woman, then church forcefemmes the baptized

Gil the Gilded Dragon

On the why it's stressful: god isn't chatty, & if you fuck up you will DAMN FOR ETERNITY a lot of people. Faith bulwarks against being crushed, but faith falters

Jacob King

Small point but I think the Pope did set up Cardinal Lithgow to get blamed for exposing Adeyemi. It was part of the 12D chess, make Lithgow think he was gaining an advantage by undermining his ability to win.

Mo Haworth

Saw this movie in the cinema with my mother (raised Catholic) and when Lawrence breaks the seal on the papal chambers she gasped so loudly that everyone in the cinema turned to look at her

Gil the Gilded Dragon

One prevents the church tearing itself apart by calling in a squad of Dominicans & a squad of Swiss guards, getting your detractors in & spring on them some greenwood

Gil the Gilded Dragon

St John Nepomuk shakes his head at the child thing. Albeit maybe the child thing could have been told outside the confessional? This movie fucking reminded me why I left the church & went pagan. Weak & wicked men turning their god's presence wicked & weak. As to interfaith concordance... pretty much since AT LEAST Charles 2 ish. The boundaries drawn, the papacy losing temporal power...

Gil the Gilded Dragon

It's why it is a clever "twist" A recognition the world is complicated, a play on the Pope Joan legend, & the canard of Checking the papal balls.

Gil the Gilded Dragon

Tbf ethics, theology, can't & probably shouldn't be planned out when being a leader or so many. The divine isn't discursive but an experiential, revelatory experience. It may be prudent to have no plan but to meet the world where it is.

Gil the Gilded Dragon

There's also a chestnut since the medieval period around priests of being feminized in masculinity. They wear dresses. They don't fuck. & yet they exist in this sphere that is strongly & paradoxically masculinized

Gil the Gilded Dragon

Look at how many Christians, Catholics, there are amongst the working class. To treat such a big part of people's being & meaningmaking with disdain or as if it can be dismissed... it is counterproductive to The Work. & considering that through the church so many find & understand solidarity / class consciousness. Ultimately I think looking well on the church is somewhat like looking at many communist regimes & praising them without going tankie?

The Mad Scientist's toolkit

I'm a little behind on the podcast due to some personal stuff but I just wanted to pop into the comments to let you know that you have one less subscriber who identifies as cis since the last episode came out and I wanted to thank the podcast and the community for helping me to be more open with myself.

cade

Purple Pingers mentioned!!! I was NOT expecting this movie to be about being trans. The twist got me!

GreenRuin

I literally just rewatched this with Dr Eleanor Janega's commentary so this is the freshest a film has been in my mind, usually I (re)watch films after the podcast cos you've made me interested in it

iaguz

They gotta put a cardinal hat on one of the turtles and make the Turtle Pope from Elden Ring real. Is this dog?

BarFly

As a former altar server I appreciate the tone of the Religiously Inflected Cinema Sins Ding. Nicely done.

Noblese Oblahaj

An alpaca using their hoof to nail a piece of parchment to a cathedral door, oblivious to Sir Keir stalking up behind them with a silenced Walther PPK

Rachel K

Haven’t started the episode yet but pretty sure I heard the correct noise based on your description alone

Noblese Oblahaj

At the end of each round of voting, someone yells "load smoke!" and the robed papal tank crew shoves a shell into the breach

Clef (they-them)

As of 2024 the church has a very clear stance on that operation - "sex change" operations are blasphemous, but surgery to correct genital disorders (like a hysterectomy on a man) are not considered sex changes. Arguably Benitez was more blasphemous for keeping his ovaries... it's a shame the movie was too cowardly to actually articulate the church's stance

mortran

I stopped the podcast about 5 minutes in to watch this film and I'm so glad I did. What super movie! Finished the 'cast too now and you got this one bang on. Thanks for putting me back in the list, Devon, sorry to make a fuss.

Sadie

I'm conflicted about the twist at the end tbh. The way it is portrayed it feels a lot like the way that trans allies talk about intersex people as if we are a gotcha for debating "only two genders" transphobes instead of being real people. The statement against operating on intersex people "just because" is nice but also it does kinda whitewash the history of christian hospitals being really enthusiastic about operating on intersex kids.

Dragonback Lancer

May I humbly request "The Master and Margerita (2024)" for religion season? It's another Russian movie about religion and making art under adverse conditions. It also fucks hard

Larketto

Why not the series from the 2000s?

Dragonback Lancer

Haven't seen that one. Also they do movies, not shows

Death By Samurai Builds a Minifigure Scale Venator

My pope name would be Testaclese and my first act would be to declare ex cathedra that race and gender are social constructs, that all are equal before the eyes of the lord and as such anyone cam be priest or nun, pope included

Lauren Shear

What I wouldn't give to listen to you all talk about the Young Pope/New Pope series!

NowhereMan661

If I was going to be Pope, I'd pick the name Joseph, because I'd have plausible deniability that I'm naming myself after the guy with the amazing technicolor dreamcoat, or maybe Jesus's stepdad, instead of the General Secretary of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union. THAT'S RIGHT, POPE STALIN HERE WE COME!!

Nikola

i watched conclave and wrote down my own thoughts in anticipation of this. im so excited

Pudlord Tynan

Some thoughts on Benitez's speech. I think in an actual conclave the Gang's points would be valid. But because of how the speech is framed and acted, a lot of the emphasis is on what's not said. "What do you know of war?" is a loaded opening, similar to his candle blow out earlier in the movie. It exposes how sheltered they've been. IIRC, Benitez's the only one who isn't in some way injured or shaken visibly. He's fine. He's been through this. For the fiction of the movie, I think that fits far more than a thesis on Revolutionary Catholicism. But I would also like to see Benitez verbally dissect Todesco's fascism in full. But the deflation of that quote in mention in the huffing and puffing Cardinal is so satisfying. Also brief aside, if I was Pope, I'd shorten my normal name from Marcas (spelled that way) to Mark.

roland00

is Name of the Rose and Conclave the same movie ?

P. j.

In the U.S. some states have enacted laws which call for priests to divulge any confessions to child endangerment. Of course the Archdiocese of each state has threatened to excommunicate anyone who follows suit. This has lead to a lot of debate centering around separation of church and state. To me allowing for school prayer crossed that line decades ago, so whatevs

Upthorn

As a yank, I never took Latin in school or college, and was really hoping to find the cold open translated in these comments.

Heather

I don't contribute £15 or above just to hear my name in the jazz outro, but I am one of the people Patreon has conspired against to keep off the list

Heather

I'm lying, that is 100% why I contribute £15 or above

CosmicParkingLot

I think i am one of those forgotten names, bc I thought it was $20 and above 😅

MS

Unrelated to anything else in the episode but I fully misheard "go on peace" as "go and piss"

AaronMk91

I held off on this episode because Conclave was 100% one of the movies I wanted to see but held off because I failed to ever get everything right to see it. I managed to this Sunday and hell yeah it was a solid 10/10 movie. and I want to see, and I don't know if anyone has said anything about it yet: but funny that Aby jokes about transvestigating the Pope because the sickos are absolutely transvestigating the new Pope

Whisky_Delta

Can a British Native explain to a poor British immigrant the "crisps and potato snacks" things?

Just A Man in a Hole 🪏

I realize how much I'll sound like "guy who just yesterday rewatched Porco Rosso" by saying this, but this films approach to femininity is quite similar to Porco Rosso. What is it about Italian chauvinism that sees women filling in all necessary background roles to the indifference or active disdain of the plot-centric men? Would love to hear y'all's take on Ghibli in general some time.

Bex

Completely unrelated but please do The Accountant as a bonus! There's a lot to talk about there... A LOT.

John Doe

It does take a while longer to watch than the movie, no matter how worthwhile... gotta be mindful of the gang's time (something something the book something)

John Doe

I don't see Six-String Samurai suggested as a future possible title anywhere, so here goes. It's from 98, and the sountrack is quite the banger. And it has features.

Carly

Believe they are saying "Crispin Potato Snacks" bc I think it arose talking about Crispin Glover in Charlie's Angels? And I think it means something like doing really deep overanalysis (though here they're referring to overanalysing to the point of guessing the "twist") - I welcome corrections from others!

John

Being Pope is the glass canon build, 10/10 powerful but also very vulnerable to cardinals. This is partially balanced by them only being able to move diagonally but Popes can go straight as well.

Robin McMurry

One of the first times I had to pause the podcast and go watch the movie for myself

Kobal Deux

Latin was a loooong time ago (and I sucked at it) but I'll give it a shot : Brothers, welcome to KJB, the only podcast personnally approved by our lord Jesus Christ. I am cardinal Abigail Thorn, and with me as always my friends cardinal Kelly and cardinal Devon. These are difficult times. Many among you may feel lost as not only is Pope Francis dead, but Geronimo the Alpaca also. In acceptance with/consequence of the death of our beloved pope, we invite you all to a special curia : Conclave.

panoptigoth

Just a note to say thank you for this lovely and necessary work.

Ellis Nygma

No because Conclave is, despite all attempts otherwise, gayer.

Joseph

Whatever you do do not take Stanley Tucci’s advice on how to make a Negroni

Zagreuses-toast

Considering the Stanley tucci cooking chat, y'all should check out Big Night, which also features Isabella Rosellini

NowhereMan661

I keep relistening to this episode trying to relieve the high of experiencing this movie for the first time. I love it so much.

Zagreuses-toast

Several re-watches later, I will say it kind of IS a murder mystery. Like Bellini said, he was hounded and stressed to death, and we find out who did the stressing and the hounding and the betraying Also after reading the book: it's a good extra to read and get an idea of what was cut and which characters were changed/compbined, but honestly the movie is better. The only thing I wish they hadnt changed was Vincent's "health concerns" being injuries from a car bomb, which makes the whole end of the movie tie together even better imo. That and Bellini's woke pro female ordination theologian friends

Zagreuses-toast

PS: if anyone is interested in Vincent being a follower of liberation theology like Abi and November mentioned he should be (because he SHOULD be), read Volo Ut Sis on AO3. It's also a love story but so is the movie really

NowhereMan661

I actually really like the implication that Adeyemi, after being confronted by Lawrence and told that he will not be Pope, but still being treated with compassion and fairness by him, switches his vote to Lawrence rather than someone he would be more politically aligned with like Tedesco, because through his actions Lawrence showed that he was a just and fair man of principle, which won him Adeyemi's genuine respect. It demonstrates that Adeyemi, while being a flawed, bigoted, and corrupt man, is still a true believer in the Church and its principles, and has some somewhat redeeming integrity that would lead him to choose the person he actually thinks most deserves to be Pope.