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Doctor Who 14x08/1x08 Full Reaction! (Patreon)

Published:
2024-06-23 19:02:15
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2026-06
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Doctor Who 1x08 "Empire of Death" Full Reaction - Sesskasays

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Comments

Ryan

You know, there was a time when I would have been furious about this episode. But now having reached about the halfway point of my life, it really doesn't phase me anymore, and I mostly just amuse myself by watching how much stuff like this pisses off the biggest assholes of any fandom. And really, that's what Sutekh is in the end, isn't he? Silently watching the show for several decades, with no sense of humor about any of it, and demanding that everyone take it as seriously as him and think the exact same way about everything in it. So you can point out all you want how little sense it makes for him to survive stuff like the Time War, and how the buildup about Ruby's mother was for nothing, but really, what could it have ever been but a bunch of meaningless technobabble anyway to make sense with everything we'd seen? The one part that does really bug me is having the episode START by wiping out the whole universe. Because it just introduces the age-old storytelling paradox that starting out with this level of destruction actually makes it impossible to take seriously, because we know the whole time that something's going to happen to reverse it all, which was the point I got to as soon as Kate got dusted two minutes in. And in a show where the Doctor was once brought back into existence by Amy remembering him hard enough, what are the odds that it'll be something that makes a lick of sense? And what better demonstration than a reactor who physically cries at almost every single character death she sees instantly just saying "They're going to fix this"? Potential spoilers since I don't know if Jess saw this bit, go to rot13.com to decode it: V nyfb ernyyl unq gb ebyy zl rlrf ng gur fubj gelvat fb uneq gb znxr n ovt qrny bhg bs Ehol yrnivat gur GNEQVF, jura vg jnf bssvpvnyyl naabhaprq orsber gur frnfba rira fgnegrq gung fur'q or va gur arkg bar. Zl orfg thrff vf gung gur arjf bs n arj pbzcnavba jnf na harkcrpgrq yrnx, juvpu gurl unq gb gura pbire sbe fb crbcyr jbhyqa'g whfg abg obgure trggvat nggnpurq gb Ehol va gur svefg cynpr, guvaxvat gurl'q bayl unir avar rcvfbqrf jvgu ure.

Josef Schiltz

The Atheist in me is really amused because the last thing that a self-deifying parasitical being like Sutekh would think would happen is to be reined in on a leash. It is the ultimate and deserved indignity. Heel boy!

Azmat Mahmood

As you may know, I'm a huge RTD fan and unlike you, absolutely adore his first era and have so far been really enjoying his second era too, but even I can't defend this finale. It's not irredeemably terrible, but the way Sutekh is defeated and the way Ruby's mother's identity is revealed (seriously, the revelation that she was actually pointing at a road sign is ridiculously stupid) is all so disappointing. Weak end to an otherwise good season, easily the weakest RTD season though imo. Still, this is the best Doctor Who has been since series 10, so I can't be too critical.

Alex Mann

I didn’t mind that Ruby’s mother was an ordinary individual. Who knows if that’s even the true ending to the story, but if it is that’s fine. RTD was making a huge point at calling out the fans and everyone for putting so much stock and importance in a figure, that they must be special in some way. We spent months talking about who her mother could be, theories out the ass. I think it was a wonderful story. The leashing was a bit odd, and naming of Ruby- but did we all forget Doctor Who has endings that don’t make complete sense, and they aren’t meant to as much as to emphasize a meaning. Do we all remember when the Doctor was brought back just by the world saying his name and remembering him? Lol

Thomas Corp

“Bananas” is a good description of the finale in general, let alone the first few minutes. I’m pleased that you really liked the finale, Jess. We did hit the ground running with the dusting that Thanos would have been jealous of. No, yeah, given the scale, it stood to reason that the dusting would be reversed. Even so, it does hurt to see them all perish, Kate especially. The line she had about the birds singing, that broke my heart a little bit, though my reaction was subdued compared to yours; I wanted to give you a hug on that one, Jess. I get the being overwhelmed in that moment and you sitting on the couch screaming Kate’s name in horror. To such a degree that Kate even heard the echoes of that, which is quite the accomplishment, I might add. You say you want Kate to never do that again. I suspect that someday Kate might do that to you again, or maybe not. Hopefully not for a long, long time to come. Gabriel clearly having such a delightful time returning to be Sutekh again and be deliciously sinister and wicked again was a big highlight of the finale. A shame that victory was in his grasp, and it’s thwarted by his, as you described, needing the tea. Beings of Darkness do tend to have a strong predilection for needing the tea; the feeling is at times strongly mutual, as is often the case with my potent relating to said beings of Darkness. Sidenote, when the Doctor called Sutekh the greatest monster that he has ever fought, leading you to comment, “Ok. Somebody’s forgetting the cactus again.” I quipped, “Yes. The Doctor doth continues to exhibit historical forgetfulness about the cactus.” I’m also rather curious what Sutekh got up to pass the time during the stay on Darillium, not to mention the four and a half billion years that the Doctor spent in the confession dial. The Tales of the TARDIS-TARDIS was a surprise. Which brings me to the one comment I wanted to mention earlier was that going by your reaction, the Tales short felt like a deleted scene from this finale that got cut for time. Not that that’s necessarily bad, just that’s the feeling I got. That scene where Bonnie wasn’t acting when she sees the infamous coat was emotional. Evidence of how it gets you is that you haven’t even gotten that far in Classic Who yet and the scene still gets you. Similar “Oh, my Claire.” reaction to Sian Clifford in this. As I commented on youtube, you and I immediately thought of Twelve with the spoon, and I loved that so much, Jess. No worries on the whistle reaction. Stuff like that happens to me all the time, so I relate. Interesting to bring back the 73 Yards plotline and intimate that Ruby does vaguely recall that. Someone please for the love of God tell me that when the Doctor took down Roger ap Gwilliam, that he did so by going undercover as a government spin-doctor with mighty impressive attack eyebrows. The heart did break for Mel. Concerning your critique of Sutekh’s defeat. Well, seeing as media anymore doesn’t want to focus on villainy and its brilliance anymore, we tend not to get as great showcases of how hard fought a victory it is for the heroes to triumph. This combined with my preemptively making peace with the fact that it was going to be near impossible to have a final death for Sutekh that would be worthy of someone of his villainous caliber, I wasn’t THAT bothered, but I share your view on that, Jess. Though I did love your reaction to Ruby’s defiance of Sutekh. And it is still a good moment that points out Sutekh still won by forcing the Doctor to become a monster by finally killing him, presumably.

Thomas Corp

Now to the matter of the resolution of the mystery of Ruby’s parentage. There are some mixed feelings on that. Mainly because it doesn’t QUITE mesh with some of the things that were presented leading up to the revelation. Certainly, I’m with you on liking the idea of there was no grand reveal. It helps that the theories, if any, I wasn’t dug into anything specific. So, when we reveal that her mother is an Earth woman we simply never saw before, I’m fine with that. And the scenes of the reunion and subsequent family gathering, that got me to cry quite a bit, and I liked that a lot. Separate that from the hype and mystery, nothing wrong with it, though yeah, the reveal of the ominous sign point felt slightly contrived. I’ve seen comparisons, both good and bad, to Star Wars with the rug pull about Ruby’s parentage. Specifically, comparisons have been made to the Sequel Trilogy, and I’ve heard Davies himself said he drew inspiration from that. Me, my mind went to a different era of Star Wars as I recalled words spoken by a wise old woman, those words being, “Perhaps you were expecting some surprise, for me to reveal a secret that had eluded you, something that would change your perspective of events, shatter you to your core. There is no great revelation, no great secret. There is only you.” And again, the idea and sentiment imparted, I liked, and I’m happy to see you were quite taken with it as well. It is also nice to hear that they found Ruby’s father and are going to see him too. Now the final scene with Ruby threw me some, albeit somewhat less dramatically than it threw you. My one thought was, “Well, wait, this is not the last scene with Ruby. Right? She’s coming back. At least for the Christmas special. I’m pretty positive.” My further thought being, “If I’m wrong, I’m wrong, but I think we will see her again.” That being said, for a companion exit, even if it may or may not be permanent, it was quite an emotional one. Supposing that is the definitive exit for Ruby, it was a damn good one. Especially with Ruby’s Theme getting a strong presentation. She got me when she says, “I love you.” to the Doctor, and he maintains his habit of never saying it back, nor does he even say, “I know.” which would be an acceptable substitute. Your reaction to Ruby’s last scene was truly something, Jess. And all in all, a happy ending. Well, except for Mrs. Flood raining on the parade a mite by being cryptic as all shit. It’s too bad that the Doctor’s story will end in absolute terror. But then again who’s story doesn’t? I now want to take the moment to express my sympathy that Rocco has not been doing well. You say that the reaction was delayed because of that, which means you do not have to apologize for that. Rocco is not well, you prioritize that, we’ll understand and be patient. You mentioned filming whilst running on fumes. Didn’t show, if I’m being honest. This reaction was amazing. Thank you for the reaction. Best of wishes to Rocco that he gets well soon. And I hope you manage to get some rest in for yourself. Take care of yourself, Jess, and thank you for the reactions to this season of Doctor Who. Look forward to the Christmas special. Again, take care, Jess.

Ryan
>>141651504

We did just get a fantastic and believably seemingly unbeatable villain with Michael Emerson's Brainiac in My Adventures with Superman. So many marvelous baroque evil lines, and anyone who's seen Lost knows how great he can deliver that. Plus, the show's version of Lex Luthor is being called the most viscerally detestable version of the character ever, and while I'd still give the edge to Giancarlo Esposito in Harley Quinn, it definitely shows how Jesse Eisenberg's version could have been done right.

Thomas Corp
>>141644577

I do find, especially after living through the era of hate towards the Prequel Trilogy, then now in adulthood, experiencing the Sequel Trilogy hate, plus the other Disney Star Wars hate and the backlash that both Crystal Skull and Dial of Destiny got, that you just get fed up with the negativity and over-criticism, and like you said, some of it just doesn’t get to you anymore. There are occasions where, sure, I still have objective criticisms or issues, yet I try not to let it overwhelm everything else. I’m just amused by Sutekh’s persistence in surviving through everything from his first appearance hence. You think, “Man, the God of Death is DEDICATED, I live for it!” Both Sutekh’s death and the reveal about Ruby’s parents, hard to come up with stuff that’s going to satisfy everyone. Though I do share the thoughts Jess had on the death not quite having the punch to it, it still works decently enough. And I liked the message behind Ruby’s plotline. Fans are just mad that their theories got debunked. I didn’t even have any. It was all done well, slightly disjointed at spots though the buildup was. Agree with the knowing everything’s going to get reversed thing, though it still hurt seeing Kate’s one scene. If it’s at that level, obviously it’s not going to stick. (Somewhat curious if this means the Flux got reversed.) I am reminded how Moffat spoiled Jess and myself in that that’s my favorite era. I’m making peace with the show probably never reaching that high ever again. Meaning that ok, so this finale wasn’t perfect, all right, it was still pretty damn entertaining, and I liked it, and I’m happy that Jess liked it. Never heard of that decoding website before. Useful tool.

Ryan
>>141651515

I was most reminded of Steven Universe, which really delighted in trolling the audience with big reveals before swerving to something totally mundane. Which was fun for a while, but then they missed the point where they'd done enough messing around with what the show wasn't and should have pivoted to what it actually was. And I don't trust as much as I used to that RTD knows the difference either.

Thomas Corp
>>141651504

I would have been finer with Jesse Eisenberg in that movie if it was Alexander Luthor rather than THE Lex Luthor, the greatest criminal mind of the century. Nice to hear there’s a show where his style of Lex works, plus other strong Superman villainy. Still praying for the day of Giancarlo as Lex Luthor in a live action property. Same with Mark Hamill as the Joker in live action, even if I know it’ll never happen, a man can dream.

Ryan
>>141644577

It moves the letters thirteen spaces away, ie halfway through the alphabet, which means the same function can both code and decode.

Thomas Corp
>>141646047

I was raised Catholic myself, and still identify as such, yet I do agree that there is strong risible amusement over a being such as Sutekh’s ultimate fate being as undignified as it was. Certainly, as you say, it would be the last thing he would have ever expected.

DieWinterkirsche

NGL. I love the memes that came out of this of Sutekh hanging on the TARDIS during other adventures (My favorite is that he and Jack having a conversation. xD) - ALSO I´m wondering it thos "reset" at the end also resets the casualties of the Flux... :)

Thomas Corp
>>141657955

The memes from that have been funny. Nice to see I’m not the only one who thought about the casualties of the Flux being undone as a result of this finale.

Ryan
>>141657955

"They're just hanging out and playing cricket, no aliens or anything. Do I even need to be here?"

Ryan

I have to add that I've just seen a new RTD interview/commentary where he outright states he was building these mysteries purely to get people talking, without caring at all what the payoff would be. I've been a supporter of the guy for decades, and this one hurts.

Thomas Corp
>>141671775

Sorry to hear that. Objectively, I’m aware that subverting expectations seems a popular trend these days, and I admit that the payoff itself I did generally like, still, to hear there’s not a care given to what the payoff would be does sound slightly callous. I wouldn’t go so far as to say that I’m hurt as you say you are. But even so, you say this one hurts as it does, ok. It is a tiny bit saddening, I’ll tell you that much.

Josef Schiltz
>>141671775

To me, Doctor Who has always existed within the mind realm of Surrealist poetry. The juxtaposition of distant - and far flung - realities. Only to an extent does it still cling desperately within that realm. To me, Doctor Who has always had poetry. At the moment, I am struggling to find it because it seems to be engaged within it's own nightmare distortions and either RTD's nightmares are being made everyone else's or it is a nightmare of the TARDIS. Worse still, it may be a nightmare from which there is no awakening. Hm. Do TARDISes dream of nightmare dogs?

Josef Schiltz

I was wryly amused to read this. Robert Schumann's Five Pieces in Folk Style (German: Fünf Stücke im Volkston), Op. 102 is a set of five short pieces for cello and piano, composed in 1849 and published in 1851 with a dedication to cellist Andreas Grabau [de]. It was Schumann's only published work designed explicitly for performance by cello and piano, though the pieces also appeared in a version prepared by Schumann for violin and piano. The first edition's title page reads "ad libitum violine". Another set of five pieces for piano and cello were composed by Schumann in 1853, and performed privately to acclaim; but the pieces never appeared in print and were destroyed in 1893 by Clara 👀! - Schumann's wife - who considered them - get this - the inferior product of madness! ⏰

Thomas Corp
>>141671775

Does the TARDIS dream of nightmare dogs? Certainly hope not. That sounds horrifying.

Ryan
>>141657955

So do you suppose there's another Sutekh in Fourteen's TARDIS?

Josef Schiltz

Jess, I am sorry to hear that Rocco is not doing well. I hope he pulls through.

Josef Schiltz
>>141671775

Capt. Jack: "Now . . . Just wait! H . h . hold on a minute! When I was hanging on to the TARDIS in the time vortex, screaming your name, I thought I felt something licking my face! There was a fetid-smelling hot breath on the back of my neck! THAT WAS SUTEKH??? . . . I wondered why my coat smelled of dog piss!"

Paul Hayes

I was exactly like you - gutted when they killed Kate, and then relieved when everyone else started dying as I was sure it would be reversed! You recognised the actress who played Fleabag's sister much more quickly than I did. I was trying to work out where I recognised her from, then it hit me about halfway through the scene. I also thought the pointing was a bit over-dramatic for what it ended up being!

Thomas Corp
>>141731859

Same here. Though unlikely, it wasn’t impossible that Kate would get killed off there. The scene itself is so well done and it breaks your heart that you actually think it could be it for her. Then as soon as everyone else, especially Mrs. Flood and Cherry start dusting away, you know it will all be undone before the episodes end. It did take a second for me to process Sian Clifford being in this as if she was advertised as being in this, I missed that. Once it did, I shared the “Oh, my Claire” reaction that Jess had. It seems most everyone is agreeing on the dramatic and ominous finger pointing, regardless of opinion of the rest of the finale, everyone is on the same page of that part being a mite silly.