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Thomas Mahler on Metroidvanias, Remote Work, and Publishers | Sacred Symbols+, Episode 446

Please welcome award-winning director and designer Thomas Mahler to Sacred Symbols+. Mahler is the co-founder of Moon Studios, the team behind the Xbox-aligned Ori series, and is currently championing their newest project, the ARPG No Rest For the Wicked. In a wide-ranging conversation, Thomas talked to me (Colin) about a variety of topics that will be fascinating to students of the industry. How has his emphasis on obsessiveness and hard work paid off in his career? Is crunch a natural byproduct of caring? How does Moon operate with a fully-remote team, with more than 90 people spread across 43 (!) countries? What was it like working with Microsoft as a second party, and why didn't Moon embrace the potential of being purchased outright? Why is the Metroidvania genre so special, and why are Metroidvanias so difficult to make? How much should new games cost? Are subscription services destroying game devs' ability to make money? All of that -- and more! -- on the other side of the play button.

Comments

Directional Joy

It was such a pleasure to see each of you smiling, naturally, through the entirety of the conversation. I felt the joy with you. 😀 Two people from different careers/backgrounds but very much of the same cloth. I could tell you both had a mutual appreciation for each other, and what you each contribute to life. For me, this episode is classic tier and will be one I rewatch in the future. The topics you discussed are not time sensitive, just as relevant now as later. Colin, you did a fantastic job at being prepared but keeping the vibe casual. Respect! … and OF COURSE, thank you Thomas, for coming on the show. You were very transparent and well spoken about topics that some would be shy to delve into. Also, such a wise mind resting on those shoulders, knowing what TRULY matters in life. 🙇‍♂️ * on a side note, JESUS Thomas, you are 41?! Salute to your skin care or a life that hasn’t left you wrinkled, from stress. 🫡 😆

Bisexual Lighting Rigger

Its pretty silly that Colin has never played Ori. They are 2 of the best metroidvania's ever made. This is why I could never be a single console guy. I would never be able to let a game like that slip through my fingers especially if its in a genre I love.

dennywouldnever

This episode fucking rules! Great insights all around. Thank you for always finding new perspectives in the gaming space.

Guybrush Threepwood

yeah, i get it that he needs to focus on PS stuff for the most part, but you would think that for a genre that he loves so much he would play something like Ori.

Guybrush Threepwood

Super Cyborg by Arturo Games. ANyone else ever played this? this is my favorite Contra-like of all time so far. can't believe how good this game is and i got it for $2.09 on sale.

AlPacaCino

Great interview, one of the best sacred + episodes. Colin is the right person in VG media to interview this guy.

Giovanni D'Amico

What a stellar listen. Just terrific interviewing and an interesting, candid interviewee with so much to say. Great rapport. Thanks for this, Colin.

Germanos

Great conversation. Countless wise arguments, BUT one thing that needs correction is the topic of "gamers don't care about graphics because look at how Roblox is doing" - they don't care because those games there are (mostly) free. The narrative changes once you ask for money, and how much money. Also, the comparison to Roblox or Fortnite is not the correct perspective, as those games are more a cultural, social entities, than JUST video games.

Patrick is a PlayStation fan

Thank you for the great interview! I enjoy hearing a creator’s viewpoints on multiple topics. I really appreciate how Thomas sticks to his principles.

PortugalTheMark

Maybe he watched Micah play or somewhere online but would have been good if Colin asked more questions about the past games that he may or may not have played or watched play. Felt the questioning was a little placeholder. Not bad but actually a very by the numbers interview. Also no mention of the workplace incident?