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Shogun: 109-110 (Patreon)

Published:
2025-02-04 13:00:06
Edited:
2026-01-07 00:43:30
Imported:
2026-06
Tags:

Content

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Comments

Jeff K.

These two episodes are SO GOOD. Crimson Sky might genuinely have been the single best episode of TV in 2024. Incredible stuff.

Fritz

I'm so hyped for this. First thing I do when I get home from work is watch this.

Mastervodo

Can't wait to get home to watch this season finale with you two! It's so great! Thank you for watching this for us!

Da Big Appa

The edited version needs a edit of George's guesses on how it ends then a smash cut how Crimson Sky ends. This was a great reaction.

Jeff K.

Season two has been confirmed, though the people who made the show were not planning on doing anything other than a single season. It was supposed to be a 10 episode miniseries and that’s it, but because of how huge it was, FX/Hulu wanted them to make more.

Ste Rawlings

For me, the thing that separates film from the vast majority of tv is visual storytelling and there are 2 absolutely incredible moments of visual storytelling in these 2 episodes. 1.In episode 9 We see a top down shot of Anjin staring at the Japanese garden and all of the lines. He then angrily steps forward and draws a vertical line through them. Anjin drawing the vertical line is him going against conformity. It's a protest. He wants Mariko to choose a different path but she wont so he expresses frustration by messing with the flow of the lines in the garden. Crucially we initially see this in a tighter shot and the vertical line has disrupted about 50% of the horizontal lines in the garden. We then cut away with Mariko speaking with the priest and when we eventually return to Anjin staring at the garden the shot has now changed and this time we are zoomed out, seeing the bigger picture. Now we see that this single act of individualistic protest from Anjin has barely made an impact on the many lines in the garden. 2. After returning to the fishing village Anjin and Fuji sit together and Anjin turns to look at the empty space where Mariko used to sit. We are reminded of what Kiku said in the teahouse about the teapot "Presence is felt most keenly in absence". Beautiful. Really enjoyed revisiting this show with all of you guys.

snthd

There is a famous saying in Japan about the three greatest lords from that period, who were the basis for the characters from the show: - Oda Nobunaga (Lady Ochiba's father, killed by Mariko's father): "If a bird doesn't sing, kill it." - Toyotomi Hideyoshi (Taiko, previous ruler): " If a bird doesn't sing, make it" - Tokugawa Ieyasu (Toranaga): "If a bird doesn't sing, wait for it." If you read on these characters, make sure you don't go past 1600, as the new seasons are likely to depict later historical events.

Tay Schumaker

I know I said this on an earlier Shogun video, but I cannot recommend the movie Silence enough. Especially if you liked this series. It involves two Portuguese priests going to Japan in the 1630s & 1640s (Shogun is set in 1600). Starring Andrew Garfield and Adam Driver, directed by Scorsese. It's a beautiful film that really affected me and stuck with me for a long time. I know there isn't a chance for it to win a poll, but still recommend people to watch it on their own if they are interested. I try to get people to watch it all the time

Maiki

I don't think that I ever would've watched this on my own, so glad that I did it with you guys now. Thank you, this was awesome. The whole cast was great, but the performance of the actress playing Mariko, especially in Episode 9, was just phenomenal.

Jeff K.

100%. Anna Sawai was the runaway winner for basically every award she could possibly win for a reason. She was phenomenal.

Chris

To be clear about what's going on at the end of nine: Mariko's whole plan was to force an either/or--I'm walking out, or I'm dying. The first is a win, the second has the effect of shaming Ishido so deeply he'll lose all his support. His way out of the trap, his plan at the end, is to capture her alive, so that she can neither leave nor seppuku. By resisting, they manage to foil that plan when she steps in front of the door. This is all MUCH clearer in the book.

Jeff K.

And of course, it fully turned Ochiba against Ishido and convinced her to switch her allegiance to Toranaga, since Ishido is fully responsible for the death of her “sister.” To quote the great philosopher DJ Khaled, to Ishido I say, “Congratulations, you played yourself.”

Chris

Right--because she DID manage to commit seppuku Ishido is deeply shamed--and as far as Ochiba's concerned not only did he kill her "sister" but, even worse, it was due to his own incompetence. But yeah, their relationship is an interesting change--in the book Ochiba abandons Ishido because she knows that if the heir turns up with Ishido, Toronaga will simply kill him, all his protestations of loyalty be damned. "So sorry." I like that the show gives us a relationship between Mariko and Ochiba... but I do miss that extra bit of showing how utterly ruthless and ambitious Toronaga is.

Jeff K.

That’s interesting. I haven’t read the book, but I might need to remedy that.

Chris

It's good! It's a little bit dated, but not much. It's a big sucker, fair warning. If you like it, check out Tai-Pan by the same author. China during the Opium Wars.

Garrett Mazzuca

Excellent reaction as always. I interpreted Blackthorn's visions as his dream of a future that he eventually lets go of (as evidenced when he let Mariko's cross fall into the ocean. In his dream, he held onto it). Also going to recommend Severance. Think you guys would eat up theory crafting for that show lol

Jeff K.

And for George and Simone, since we're now able to talk a little about the actual history: Blackthorne is based (loosely) on a man named William Adams, who was the first Englishman to visit Japan. Adams was, in fact, made hatamoto by the lord that Toranaga is based on.

Dragonhunter

Man, what a great show. I'm glad I gave it a try because I'm normally not into shows in this time period. Hope we will get Barry for the next short series poll

Tay Schumaker

Yeah George keeps mentioning future seasons. This was supposed to be it. It wraps up the whole story and covers the whole book. I am honestly not sure how they do another season. Other than FX wants the $/prestige

Poddington

Yes but when does Season 4 of Better Call Saul start? xD

Opti_Frog

First of all, it has been so much fun rewatching this show with you guys. I'm still trying to wrap my head around the plot and the intrigue, but what really makes Shōgun shine for me are the characters and the actors. Shōgun was conceived and presented as a mini series, a finished story that was not supposed to have additional seasons. But with great success comes great demands for more success, i guess, because, as you said, two more seasons are now being planned. I'm not complaining. "Ask yourself... What kind of man wields power in a land like this?"

Ste Rawlings

I'm English but spend quite a lot of time in Italy and people i know there call me Stefano. It's really not that deep.

Robinson vs. Parkinson's

That show is fucking beautiful, and I'm really glad you guys watched it. Mariko-Sama has to be one of my favorite female characters. Now I just need to get my daughters to sit down and watch it with me.

Brandon

Can anyone explain to me why the ruler at the time (based on Nobunaga) in Mariko's flashback in episode 6 was executing a bunch of her father's men in front of him? The show doesn't give a lot of context and I don't think there was a real-life version of that event. Lady Ochiba's real-life counterpart was nicknamed Lady Cha Cha. For some reason I just really love that nickname. 😆 If you look up Tokugawa Iyeasu and the government he established after Sekigahara, it's pretty clear that he was the only "great unifier" of Japan that had any visions for the future. Oda Nobunaga was just a blood thirsty tyrant, despite having a good mind for warfare and battle strategy. Toyotomi Hideyoshi united the entire country and then made the mistake of setting his sights on conquering China. Say what you will about the laws established by Tokugawa, but he ended more than a century of constant war. It's really fun to look up the differences between the real-life people and the characters based on them. For example, Yabushige has a thing for boiling people alive. His real-life counterpart was not executed, although Tokugawa's other retainers disliked him and thought he was corrupt. In real life it was actually the man Mariko's father is based on, Akechi Mitsuhide, that was known for boiling people alive.

Mike FromOz

If you would like a movie which delves into the kinds of plotting and machinations that this series has, I can thoroughly recommend Akira Kurosawa's "Kagemusha". It's based around the same time period, and does a wonderful job of using an outsider to help portray the schemes and plans within the empire. And it's Kurosawa, so you know it's good. Very underrated, but that's to be expected when you've got a director with such heavy hitting movies as "Seven Samurai", "Yojimbo" and all of his non-Samurai related movies. I don't think seeing Kagemusha would spoil anything, but instead give another perspective on Japan and its history, via film.

Jeff K.

The acting on this show is always so good, and universally lauded, and the people who have won awards have been very rightfully awarded, but I don't feel like Cosmo Jarvis gets nearly enough praise for how damn good he was. As far as I can recall, I'm not sure he was even really talked about as a potential Emmy nominee, or anything (I could be mistaken, but I genuinely don't recall him getting much buzz). He's terrific in this show.

Ste Rawlings

"Why tell a dead man the future" Toranaga's final words to Yabushige, but you've heard them before. In episode 1 Omi suggests to Yabu that they inform Toranaga of something, to which Yabushige responds "Why tell a dead man the future". Meaning Omi was working for Toronaga all along. This also means that Toranaga was almost certainly behind Omo manipulating Toranaga's son into attacking Jozen with the cannons.

Ste Rawlings

100% agree man. He's a guy whose career i've been following for quite a while now and I can't understand why he hasn't had more praise for this.

Ste Rawlings

Guys he drops the cross he's holding in the old man scenes in the water when he's on the boat with Fuji.

Jeff K.

This is the first time I've ever seen him in anything (and, sidenote, if/when they ever recast Wolverine, I could see him crushing that role), but he's so good. He's just kinda the forgotten person in the cast, despite being the central character.

TechPriest

Minor correction: her intent was harakiri, not seppuku. The methods of ritual suicide were different for men and women. What's depicted in the series differs from the book and history in that the knife should have been placed at her throat to sever the arteries in the neck, which is the correct method for wives and female family of samurai. Fuji readies this properly in the beginning of the series by holding the knife to her throat while clutching her baby. I'm not sure why they changed the knife position for Mariko while also keeping the knee-tie (which is accurate).

Matthew

~~~BOOK SPOILER BELOW~~~ The ending was changed slightly from the book, but was still impactful and really great! The deal that the priest made with Mariko was spot on, she could see - that most others didnt, that without a ship, Blackthorne was harmless, without his Erasmus, then he couldnt harm the Portueguese without his famous Piss-cutter ship and couldnt hurt their trading blackship (which it explains in detail that even one missed year of trading would near bankrupt their kingdom and the church would suffer so by burning his ship, he can be allowed to live - Toronaga organises this with 1 well placed samurai and a burning candle - and then the morning after he acts angry and orders the entire ship guard to commit seppuku in disgrace. 2- Yabushige asks for his nephew Omi to be his second, and just before he commits, Yabu pretends to rush Omi making him fall over in fear, Yabu then chuckles and says something like " even half dead, you still fear me...Worry not, you may not be as half as fierce as me but you're twice as smart, the clan will be safe in your hands" and then does what he does in the show, and goes out with style. 3 - As to both George and Simone asking "just how calculating and ambitious is Toronaga" - to which the answer is ENDLESSLY. its revealed in the final pages, that Mariko doesnt write the letter to Blackthorne, but Toronaga himself, taking great care to frame it like Marikos letter. He wants to keep Blackthorne under control and to do that he knows that Blackthornes only desire is to one day sail back home, richer and more famous than any Englishman before him - so he says to himself in the final pages something along the lines " yes, Anjin, you shall have everything you need. Woman, money, shipwrights, gunsmiths, carpenters, all the men and materials that I can provide... And you will build your ship. Maybe it will take 6 months...Maybe 5 years. But I dont care, im a patient man, I can wait. And when its finally finished I will burn it again, or perhaps it will sink, or be washed away by a storm....Karma is a fickle beast... But you will build another and another and you will by the time you do, I will have learned everything about your trade, I will have a modern navy.... and then who can stop me" He is a bloody devil, but even the devil has manners. Great reaction as always

Anthony

The name is "changed" because it's so close to Maria, and obviously it was given by the Catholics which very much revere the Mother Mary, speaking of which, many christian names have cultural variants, Mary for the English, Maria for the Portugese like in the show, Marie, etc. So the Catholics are looking at it like a Japanese variation on the name.

Ginger

All caught up on Better Call Saul now and I'm so looking forward watching season 4-6 for the first time with you guys.

Bookwormy

Fun fact, not sure if it's true or a rumor, but apparently cersei is based off of ochiba.

Andreas Buehler

What else is he in that is worth checking out? Because I don't think I've ever seen him before.

Jeff K.

You're gonna love it. One of the absolute best characters in the entire BB/BCS universe hasn't even been introduced. I cannot wait for George and Simone to meet this person. Everyone who has watched the series knows exactly who I'm talking about, too.

Maiki

Just read that he will be in an upcoming Guy Ritchie movie called Wife and Dog. Alongside Benedict Cumberbatch, Anthony Hopkins and Rosamund Pike. That sounds promising. Definitely gonna keep an eye on him now.

Shibby

I'm really glad you guys enjoyed this and it was a lot of fun rewatching it with you guys. I can highly recommend reading the book as well as it explains a few more things, though there are also some differences to the show.

Skyruff Creative

A couple people above have pointed out a great question? This mini-series covered the events of the book. While "Shogun" was one in a collection of books generally addresses as the "Shogun Saga", the stories are only loosely connected over great periods of time, each focusing on the rise or fall of a great leader. Will they adapt the other books (example "Shogun : Tai-Pan"), or write original material as an extension to where the show leaves off. While I would love to see more of the characters in the show, i am very worried when shows stray to far from the original source material. (Looking at you Game of Thrones)

beecroft adams

Ishido wanted to capture mariko since he had to give her a permit to leave. Keep her a prisoner but can publicly deny it. Mariko dying ruins ishido's plans. Also if Mariko disappeared before she could leave osaka then the other lords being held prisoner wouldn't demand to leave.

Tay Schumaker

Nothing more captures the two of them really. George is so caught up in the machinations and intrigue and is talking through it without really taking in what is happening. And Simone sees what is happening and is overcome with emotion. It annoyed me a bit too, seeing that moment not fully appreciated, but it is what it is. I agree it’s one of the most powerful scenes in the entire series.

Itbewhatitbe

theres like a million ways you could've convey what you wanted to say Alex and you chose the douchiest, most crude way. theyre not your personal entertainment or play things. theyre just people, caught up in what theyre watching. i could understand if they were just rambling about unrelated things, but theyre clearly just caught up in the show. so how about calm the fuck down and be an adult

Jeff K.

It's so easy to be polite and kind. And yet... you apparently can't do it because they didn't react the way you wanted them to. Do better.

probablyKoi

I am pretty sure George is correct about the adoption thing. I played a ton of the game Total War: Shogun 2 and if you want you can adopt one of your generals, as George said even if they're far older than you, and Total War is one of those franchises that tries to stick to history with stuff like that.

Jay S

That's why I don't lend any credence to those award shows. When a show like BCS doesn't win a single emmy for anything throughout its entire run. Or Black Sails, the best written and acted show I've seen not receive a single nomination in those categories. It's a joke. And yes, Cosmo was amazing as Blackthorne.

Tera

Fuji-sama was one of my favorite supporting characters throughout the whole series. Her overarching story was so emotional, but she also had moments of great strength and even some comic relief early on. But the scene with her and Blackthorne spreading her husband and son's ashes really sealed that feeling for me. The moment where she comforts Blackthorne before he drops Mariko's rosary into the water by repeating what Mariko said when the men tried to take her son away to be killed was so powerful, as well. Such a well-written character and some really incredible acting by Moeka Hoshi. I really hope the writers can find a way to bring her back in later seasons.

algi

I think it's worth watching (even if not publicly reacting) the 1980 series because it focuses on different parts of the story and there are some scenes that explain or embellish parts that were left out or left unexplained in the new show. It has John Rhys-Davies as Rodrigues, the Spanish pilot.

Ste Rawlings

Andreas, he's in a movie called Calm With Horses (The Shadow of Violence if you're in north america) He's excellent and does maybe the greatest Irish accent by a non Irish person ever in film. It is In Us All, Funny Face, and Nocturnal are all good too.

Ste Rawlings

Jeff I've had the same thought about Wolverine previous but also don't want him to get bogged down doing MCU stuff

Philipp Roensch

What a great show of lovable bastards and tragic sacrifices. Thank you, for your honest reactions and thoughts! At the end finally showing us Toronagas hand, that both the show and him kept so close chest for quite a while, it's quite rewarding. I see it more of a placement with all the hints towards his fighting style and the philosophy of three hearts, and a good payoff to Yoboshige, who was the only deserved to know. If you spotted all the hints you might not need it, but isn't it cool to feel smart about it?^^ I even made peace with the lens choice by the end, the epic is not about nations but much closer to the characters, so this approach is fine. Really impressive wide pull-ins in the last two episodes were also cool, when the camera flies in for miles, the digital set extensions looked seamless. All in all, a very compelling show and with historical dramas I've watched, can certainly keep up with the best. If you allowed another viewpoint though, I must give a rebuttal to Georges disillusion with knowing of a character's death, someday. Maybe BCS is the better show to talk about that.

Kevin

I hope the next show between BCS seasons is Severance...and then when BCS concludes....Succession!

Theo Bracco

Some names have a common origin and have morphed into another in different languajes. Miriam is the original Hebrew name that morphed into Mary in English, Marie in French and María in Spanish. Some countries force the translation into "local" names. It is (was) a common practice in Spanish and Italian text books for authors, scientists and philosophers from other countries. Cristoforo Colombo is usually translated into Christopher Columbus and Cristóbal Colón. So it's not unthinkable of that the Portuguese gave Lady Mariko a Christian name when they baptized her.

Inkpendude

If it wasn't for the reactions I don't think I would have understood what the hell was going on half the time lol

Jonny Campbell

I'm really unsure about them doing a season 2 and 3... in my opinion the story came to a perfect end and there's no more source material from this timeline. I'm anticipating the "True Detective" effect where season 1 is a masterpiece and the rest... isn't. Really enjoyed watching this with you guys, glad i held off until it appeared on the channel.

Maiki

Would you please, as I rewatch Ted Lasso right now, never ever forget the growl of Roy Kent. Thank you, George!

DCray

Surprised me they didn't mention this.

dc

I've read the book several times; I'm pretty sure Mariko writes the letter, but she includes Toranaga's idea to build a new ship, because she agrees it's a great idea. Toranaga and Blackthorne are a bit closer in the book. Toranaga's line about Blackthorne making him laugh is less derisive in the book, and he mentions that he keeps him around because he needs a friend that he can trust, since he can't trust anyone else in Japan.

dc

Right—Season 1 covers the entire book, so there's no more of the original source material. The show was fairly true to the book, though the book was (IMHO) better, because you get to hear the inner thoughts of the characters, which adds a whole other level to the plot. Blackthorne's inner monologue shifts *significantly* over the course of the book, as he adopts Japanese ideas. Of course, this is impossible to portray in a show, so I understand how they needed to change things in order to tell the story in a different medium. Due to the popularity, they're predictably making a season 2 and 3, but I'm definitely concerned as to what the quality will be like—season 1 had some truly great source material to go off of. I'd rather them accept a job well-done, and move onto adapting some of the other Clavell novels. Tai Pan or Noble House would be terrific TV shows—of course, they'd have to have a completely new cast.

Jonny Campbell

That's my hope too - that they make it an anthology series based on the other books - but i don't think it's the route they'll go down, unfortunately. I get the temptation though; the cast from season 1 are really good in their roles!

Jeff K.

The actress who plays Fuji just won a Critics Choice Award for best supporting actress tonight, so I'm glad she's finally getting recognized. She was amazing. And she spent most of her speech, instead of thanking people, talking about the LA wildfires, which was pretty damned classy of her, IMO. (The actors who played Toranaga and Yabushige also won, becacuse, well... duh. I'm honestly surprised Anna Sawai didn't win, but she was up against Kathy Bates, and hey, people will award Kathy Bates whenever they can.)

Logan Kerlee

Hey guys, when does Season 4 of Better Call Saul begin? Kappa

Brandon Meng

What's on the schedule for after BCS? Ready to advocate for you guys to start watching Invincible. It's too good, would love to see your reactions to it!

Alexrandom

Again I want to advocate for the leftovers and Watchmen! Both are great and not enough people have seen those ! Also I'd like to give my two cents about something George said. It's not the first time I hear him say that knowing a character won't die removes all stakes. I completely disagree because to me there is so much to discover about the character's lives. Death is just one point at the end, knowing they won't die soon won't take away the stakes of knowing what the hell happened before that. Just my feelings on this :) And oftentimes people take for granted everything a show gives us as if everything shown was an objective truth. Very often what we see is subjective and can be unreliable.

LeperMessiah117

Twin Peaks needs to be in the running for TV. It must at least be considered considering it's legendary status and the timing of David Lynch's passing

James W.

That game rules.

James W.

I had the last eps semi-spoiled for me so I back burnered them. I am glad I did because ti was rad binging the lot with y'all. After seeing the last 2 episodes, its a trip to see just how callous Torunage is. To ride the GoT analogy George and Simone were using, likening early season Torunaga to Ned Stark; its more like what at the end of Got S1, Ned Stark didn't die instead you found out he was Tywin Lannister. Or Little Finger. Just someone so obsessed with legacy and the consolidation of power that every person they meet, is a pawn. Andor, Shogun, Arcane, and the Expanse all draw me back. They are the only things I can rewatch these days without it being a reaction. As far as season 2 and beyond, I wouldn't be surprised if it isn't as good because the series was based off a book that I believe had no sequels. That being said, it is speculative fiction about a real period in Japanese history, and I believe Hiroyuki is even more involved with season 2 and if he thought it would be a lesser product I don't feel like he would just sign on for the paycheck.