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Better Call Saul 401-402 (Patreon)

Published:
2025-02-11 13:00:05
Edited:
2026-01-08 03:01:09
Imported:
2026-06
Tags:

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Comments

Śéáń

Now that Shogun is complete, my campaign for Barry to be the next interim show begins!

Sergio Meira

Let me lend my support to Śéáń with respect to Barry! Or, if you feel more misteriously sci-fi-ey, Severance.

Michael Haug

Deadwood. Only logical choice.

FWPJR.

Definitely yes to Barry

FWPJR.

Finally, now we are getting to my favorite seasons of BCS.

FWPJR.

and like the two comments below me, please watch Barry. It’s fantastic and hilarious at times.

Martin Roca

He died of asphyxiation, still needs the cremation.

Martin Roca

About the ending of Ep 1, I think Jimmy felt guilty, but after finding out what Howard did, he could leave all the load onto him. All episode he was like "stunned", staying awake all night thinking, i think he was trying to figure it out what actually happened, until he found out.

Martin Roca

hahaha true, but he's not ashes (yet) (end of dark jokes)

Mike Medaugh

As for the cold open, I'm curious. I for whatever reason tend to say O when meaning zero. Like at work, I say " Please call 4 oh 1" meaning 401. I guess it's because of my age and dial 0 for the operator. Yes George it's the AAA, one step below the Major League, baseball team in ABQ.

Jeff K.

George: yep, the ABQ minor league baseball team is called the Isotopes, but they named the team after the one in The Simpsons, so in this case, as in so many cases, Simpsons did it first.

Śéáń

I just think it checks so many of both their boxes. Bill Hader, Stephen Root, Competence Porn, farcical incompetence, great writing, great action, great comedy. The works!

Zosia B

Only rewatching the episode this time have I realised that the music playing in the background at the church is the same piece that Charles tries (and fails) to play in Season 2 episode 2! (Sicilienne by Gabriel Fauré)

Inkpendude

The whole thing about jimmy and rejecting the job is that he probably hears Chucks voice in the back of his head, and probably hates that he can persuade a couple of guys into giving him a job that easy. and the last thing Chuck said to jimmy was basically that he hurts people, and that he will never change. Jimmy probably hates himself a little.

Zosia B

And as for Jimmy's lighthearted behaviour at the end of the episode, Saul's character in BB might have been the source of comic relief many a times, but let's not forget the man was often the first to suggest that this or that person should be 'sent to Belize'. I think Jimmy / Saul was born with faulty conscience, and only the influence of some people in his life - mostly Chuck (up to the famous showdown scene between the brothers) and Kim - teases the 'moral' responses out of him.

Ste Rawlings

Yeah Jimmy doesn't take responsibility for his actions unless he absolutely has to, we've seen that throughout the show. Howard presented him a small out and Jimmy was very happy to take it.

Inkpendude

All we need to do is let them know is a comedy show, I feel like they are gonna need one of those haha

Ira K.

I think that Jimmy was feeling responsible for Chuck's death and Howard's guilt basically gave him an out. He was relieved that he can just put that burden on someone else and go on with his life. He took what Chuck said to heart and decided to skip the guilt for all the bad things he does since he apparently can't change (which is bullshit btw). RIP Chuck, you would've hated The Good Place lol

Ketzalborne

BCS is back!!! One of THE greatest shows ever!!

Paul T Hewes

yep. how she didnt win ANY awards for the entire run of the show is criminal...

Jeff K.

100%. Jimmy was in shock under the immense weight of guilt he was feeling, and as soon as Howard blamed himself, it lifted the weight off of Jimmy’s shoulders.

Philipp Roensch

Reacting to the end of episode 1 quite disgusted with Saul is very understandable. Jimmy probably blames himself a lot, maybe he even knew Chuck was playing up his healed state, but now that Howard feels blame too, Jimmy cruelly is happy with that on him. I like to also recall when in BB the kid got shot by Todd, afterward Jesse and Walt had a discussion in which Walt urges Jesse to take some time off, and then proceeds to happily whistle a tune while cooking, we knew then Walt fully accepted his criminal behavior - I find these scenes quite similar. Proving that again in episode 2, when Jimmy gets to call out easily mislead people, he would not want to work for them, but rob them. Kim standing up for him, is very cool, but I fear her love is letting her glance over what Jimmy did to Chuck ultimately. Welcome back to another spectacular season of television :D.

Jeff K.

Oh! And you know who would NOT hate The Good Place? George and Simone! Hint hint, nudge nudge.

Ira K.

I love that Chuck and Kim's view of Jimmy are so opposite. One mostly sees the bad in him, the other sees mostly good. Both points of view are very flawed because they don't see what the audience sees. Kim is wonderful, but her judgment is very clouded not only by her love for Jimmy but also by her animosity towards Howard. She has her reasons for both. Love the writing in this show, every character is so complex.

BangDroid

Living in close proximity to fried chicken is actually a curse. I live 1 minute walk from KFC, basically next door, and it's way too convenient. Lucky for me I'm sick of it for now so don't buy it anymore lol.

TGrimace

Jimmy never thought it was an accident. He blamed himself. He thought the debacle at the court house pushed Charles into ending his own life. When Howard took responsibility and said it was because he pushed Charles out of the law firm, Jimmy was able to let go of the guilt and start blaming Howard.

lisa

yayyyyyyyyyyy!

Dragonhunter

That's a good point. Never thought of it like that.

elias rinis

This is gonna be sooo good 🙌🙌

Dragonhunter

Yeah, also hoping to see it every time there is a new show vote.

Ste Rawlings

HE HAS ALWAYS BEEN SAUL!!!!!!!

Carlos H

Bcs tuesdays are, back!

Ste Rawlings

Simone's initial takeaway from that Jimmy reaction is spot on. He's happy he doesn't have to take responsibility, it's who he has always been.

Helly R

He also (and this ties in to what you say) can't deal with his feelings. He does this over and over (and over).

Colin Huckestein

Has there been any update on when the YT versions of season 3 will be out?

Sumner Hayes

Yep, when the Albuquerque team was renaming themselves in 2003, it was only 2 years after the Hungry, Hungry Homer episode (where Homer stops the Springfield Isotopes from moving to Albuquerque). The ABQ team held a vote for a new team name, and the fans picked Isotopes in a landslide.

Helly R

Barry or Severance.

Helly R

Jimmy reacted like that in the job interview scene because Jimmy HATES suckers. It all comes back to his father, who he thought was too nice and gullible.

Sergio Meira

After Ep. 1: We're always looking for signs of Jimmy becoming Saul, right? So that's why Jimmy went 'it's your cross to bear, Howard' and start smiling and whistling... Just my opinion here, but FWIW... The BB/BCS franchise always does thing slowly. Walt didn't become Heisenberg overnight, not even when he adopted the name. And Jimmy doesn't become Saul overnight either. It's all in the little changes, in the things we're willing to put up with because we know it's just this one thing, it's just for now, and deep now we're better than that. (Have you guys ever watched BoJack Horseman? 'Diane, I need you to tell me that, despite everything, deep down, I'm a good person.') I think Jimmy sincerely grieved, because he thought this was just his prophecy coming true (remember when he told Chuck his fate?). Then he hears Howard saying the insurance thing was very important, and he hears Chuck saying again, "I'm sure your grief and heartfelt feelings are all true, but so what?" It's like even in death Chuck is still telling him what he thought Jimmy was: "you do bad things, people suffer, then you cry sincerely, then you do bad things again" -- didn't Chuck say this to Kim at some point? He's feeling the hit. At this point, I think he still wants to (like BoJack Horseman) think of himself as 'good', so he's pushing this realization away from him. I think the only way he sees of avoiding facing the aspect of truth in Chuck's words is to let Howard feel guilty for that (he could have given Howard some consolation; he did not), to tell himself that that's the whole truth, that he, Jimmy, had nothing to do with that (I assume he had felt guilty before already because of the trial setup in Chicanery, but he could if he wanted blame Chuck for that... but not for the insurance thing), and go back, albeit a little less sincerely, to his "funny" Jimmy antics. You don't get to hell by suddenly jumping down. You go down a staircase, step by self-delusional step. For Jimmy, at this point, the step down is: let someone else take the responsibility, let Howard suffer for it, I can feel better by pushing my own guilt away. That's very cold, especially when you think Howard made himself vulnerable right in front of him and Kim.

Sergio Meira

I don't think it's that simple (see my comment above), but there's some truth in what you wrote.

Sergio Meira

I don't think the "good", "funny" parts of Jimmy are dying for him to become Saul, as Simone said. I think it's more like they're becoming less sincere. He, even as Saul, still knows how to play Jimmy. (How can one ever forget that which made him so attractive to others?)

Nathan Jasper

Jimmy pulled that at the copier shop for two reasons. One, he wanted to know he could still persuade people without Chuck. That it WAS him all this time and not some adverse effect from needing to prove himself to his brother. Second, he was picking a fight. Those guys were manipulated so easily and that told him they would roll over for him and do whatever he wanted. They'd be no fun to work for.

Helly R

Rhea is a force. Can't wait to see her again in VG's new show later this year.

Alan Pownall

I think once Jimmy finds out about the insurance he just shuts down, his feelings about his brother are just too complicated for him to deal with so he just jetisons them. Remember their last interaction was Chuck saying Jimmy didn't matter to him, Jimmy decides to adopt the same position - they are both lying and that lie is their downfall.

Sergio Meira

"We're watching a horrible human being... just become more horrible..." You see, here I tend to disagree. I do like Jimmy, and I do think he could have been a very different person given different conditions -- he certainly wanted to become one. The path he's following leads through horrible things -- and that's not the worst we'll see him do. But Jimmy is still human, and I feel for him, just as I felt for Chuck, who, flawed though he was, was also fully human. That's what I like about Vince Gilligan's shows. The bandits think they're the heroes (everybody is a hero in their own story), so they suffer every time something shows them they're the bandits. We think of that Monty Python Nazi sketch ("... are.... are we the baddies?") as a fun joke, but when it happens in real life, it's really gruesome.

Nathan Jasper

Yes, Jaws 3 was in fact marketed as Jaws 3-D and yes, it IS a terrible movie worthy of Cinecringe

Sergio Meira

Look at that job interview scene. You can see the "usual" Jimmy playing all his Jimmy tricks, even coming back to give a final push and seal the deal right that moment. But ... what happens? His 'hidden' guilt, the one he's not dealing with, kicks in. 'I'm fooling these two guys, and they don't realize it? Suckers!' = 'That's what Chuck says I always do, right? I'm the con artist, the sweet talker, the one who fools others -- Chuck is right, isn't he?" It's been said that con artists at some level hate their marks for being suckers. For Jimmy in particular, I think this has a lot to do with his father having been such a great guy who was so obviously taken advantage of. I think he's going through a little bit of an identity crisis. Chuck was the brother he wanted to imitate, but he ended up causing his death (as Chuck said: 'people suffer...'); maybe the only thing left for him to be is the con artist, the fixer, Slippin' Jimmy with a lawyer's licence. For the time being, this is eating at him. And he turns his hostility outward -- it's not that he, Jimmy, is being bad right now, it's that those two businessmen were suckers.

Parabolica

And so begins one of my favourite character arcs in the series; Fabian really knocks it out of the park with his portrayal of Howard from here on out.

Actuarial Lurker

Chuck was a petty man. Brilliant as you heard in the obituary and yet so INSECURE that he had to resent someone as flawed as Jimmy who may be EVEN MORE insecure than Chuck. It reminds me of Jesse and his little brother in Breaking Bad where the 13? year old kid has to win every award in sight because his parents are so obsessed with their failing son that he has to overachieve to get ANY attention at all

Actuarial Lurker

Even IF every lawyer at HMM had their Errors and Omissions insurance doubled it wouldn't break the firm. I'm not a lawyer but have my own consulting business. Premiums for malpractice MIGHT be 5% of your top line revenue, so doubling that to 10% would hurt but would NOT wipe out your profits. So forcing Chuck out was spite...or not thinking the audience would notice

Actuarial Lurker

Season 4 through 6 has several characters who should have won Emmys....Fabian is one of them

Actuarial Lurker

Simone and George: Your Social Security number in the US is the equivalent of your SIN number in Canada. So the ability for vacuum man to create a fake drivers license AND a fake Social and get past the Hospital database linking into payment systems etc is an accomplishment...

Actuarial Lurker

Simone and George: The Albuquerque Isotopes ARE a REAL minor league baseball team and have held BCS promotions at their home games...so Saul is JUSTIFIED in being paranoid about the Taxi guy since he MUST be from that area since MINOR league baseball teams are not very famous and rarely have fans 2 or 3 states away. It would like someone from Calgary being a fan of a small Montreal or Toronto based sports team

myinniemademedoit

Sure, but it wasn’t the malpractice insurance going up that made Chuck kill himself. It was Howard forcing him out. Sure Jimmy caused the insurance issue, but Howard could have stood by a Chuck and fought the insurance company.

Vwlss Nvwls

The only people looking for Saul in the future should be the authorities. And his i.d. should be fine unless someone really looks into it, because false Social Security Numbers are usually taken from people who died long ago.

myinniemademedoit

Patrick Fabian’s portrayal of Howard Hamlin is top tier from season 1, but he just gets better from this season on. The emotions in his face alone tell the story of the scene

Rob Bob

Season 4 can have a slow first half, but it ends up culminating to my favourite episode of the show (first or second place idk). There's just something special with season 4. I hope you guys enjoy :)

Diiirk706

Yeah. Fuck Jimmy.

JBK405

The question of when Jimmy "becomes" Saul was something that fans debated HOTLY as the series progressed. There are several points that could be "the moment", but none are unanimous. Several of them are in season four, but some say it already happened and some say it's not until later. I won't say when I believe it happened, so as not to prejudice anybody. The point about giving somebody a small amount in the will to prevent the will being contested is accurate, although it's not a specific amount like Kim predicted. It can be any amount (Even something as small as $1). The idea is specifically to show that the person wasn't FORGOTTEN, as in left out of the will by mistake. Because if somebody would logically expect to inherit something -- like a family member or long-time business partner -- then they can claim to the court that it was an oversight and have the will overturned. It takes time and legal effort, but it can be done. By specifying that this person only gets $1 -- or $5,000 in this instance -- they have no grounds to say "he MEANT to give me more but just forgot to write it down". It's one of the standard inheritance law tricks that estate planners take into account when writing a will that they expect to be challenged due to bad blood amongst the living.

JoeE

The team name was apparently inspired by the Simpson

Tee Pee

Jimmy has no respect for people he considers "marks" & "suckers"...And as far as how Jimmy reacted to Howard's confession I think he reacted like all narcissists react to feelings of guilt. They blame someone else.

Kevin

I think we have to keep in mind that Kim's outburst is definitely partly down to her needing to take Jimmy's side and excuse his shitty behavior to Howard. Her points are not all wrong but she needs to square in her mind that Jimmy is the REAL victim here and can do no wrong in his grief

Dragonhunter

He didn't kick him out because of the higher rate for the insurance, he did so because Chuck wanted to sue them.

David Caine

Vince Gilligan often gets the credit and the blame in his shows, but Better Call Saul is as much Peter Gould's baby, he did write this season's opener. Per Wikipedia, "Gould would become the series sole showrunner after Gilligan left the writing staff early in the third season to focus on other projects. This transition had been planned since the show's debut...." Gilligan left Better Call Saul early in the third season—making Gould the sole showrunner for the remainder of its run—though he returned to help write the final season. In any case, the whole group of writers and actors did something amazing.

DCray

Exactly. Well said

RabidMango

I can't express how much I appreciate Rhea Seehorn's acting. She doesn't even need a full page of dialogue to crush it on screen, but her scene with Howard was so impressive. She's working with the writer/creator/showrunner again on a new project that will be on AppleTV+. 2 seasons already confirmed at $14m per episode. I can not wait.

David Caine

Think back and remember the flashback with Jimmy's father at the family store, and Jimmy catching and calling out the customer that was ripping off his dad. Little Jimmy looked disgusted, at his own father's stupidity, as the crook points out to him that in this world there are only "sheep and wolves. " Then Jimmy himself takes some dollars out of the cash drawer. Then his whole life revolved around his scams, and fooling people so he can come out on top. 'Slipping Jimmy. At the job interview he looked just as disgusted as he did with his father back at the store. So these people being suckers, Jimmy is now gonna try to rip them off, even blatantly trying to steal. It's all the psychological hang-ups that shaped Jimmy, going now into a way of rebelling against Chuck by proving him right too.

Nathan Jasper

This time it's really really personal

Sergio Meira

If 'art' is about calling attention to life from a different perspective, then the Chuck-Jimmy relationship always stood out to me as a great artistic achievement. You can see both of them like each other, and you can see their flaws, and you can see how their flaws made them toxic to each other, until they became their worst selves. It's so deeply sad. And how many of our real-life relationships are like that? The only thing that could have helped them would be sincere communication -- realizing what they're doing to each other, and why. Chuck could have noticed how much he envied his little brother's charisma, and how that festered inside of him; but he didn't. Jimmy could have noticed how often his charisma was misused to just take advantage of others (because they took advantage of Dad, and there are only sheep and wolves in this world), and how that was hurting people around him, including those he loved, including his brother. But he didn't. My conclusion? We should all open our eyes to what we're doing and why, especially when it affects those we love the most.

Athenor

Well as a stroke survivor myself I can answer your question Simone the doctor gus brought in was telling true facts and talking of real therapies used, altho it would be too early for him to start right away, those ideas will be spread over years of recovery

Maiki

Hope you're doing well and the aftereffects aren't that bad, mate.

Actuarial Lurker

But Chuck only wanted to sue HMM because Howard wanted to force him to retire to an "Emeritus" role

Justin Leone

All due respect to Vince Gilligan, but it's worth mentioning that he had very little to do with the ongoing storyline of this show. He directed a bunch of episodes, and wrote a few, but especially after the first season, Peter Gould was the showrunner and largely responsible for the story structure of the series.

Cold Binterp

Absolutely. The photocopier interview scene puzzled me until I rewatched the series, but I've come to think shows a really important part of Jimmy. It's partly an expression of his grief and tendency for self-sabotage, but I think it goes deeper than that. He wants to want to do things the right way, but looming over him is the knowledge that he can just say the magic words and take a shortcut. Whether it be a half-true complement or outright fraud, Jimmy is continuously tempted to massage the truth to achieve his goals. It's a temptation most of us are familiar with, but requires far more willpower to resist when you know you have the skill to pull it off. When that temptation is overcome Jimmy has the ability to do the right thing (passing the bar/returning the Kettleman's money), but at much greater effort for far less (or no) reward. And so he blames the people tempting him, the suckers. If only they would stop being so weak and naive, so like his father, then he would be able to get ahead the right way. He doesn't want to be a sheep, so thinks he has to be a wolf.

Silver Linings Starman

The Albuquerque Isotopes got their name from "The Simpsons". They are a minor league baseball team of the Colorado Rockies, where players train for the MLB. The highest level of baseball in the US.

Robinson vs. Parkinson's

Again, my main takeaway is that I feel bad for Howard! WTF? I hated that guy! That's just good writing.

matan ron

Kim was just as shocked as Howard to hear how Jimmy replied to him. She just feels she has to take Jimmy's side and at the same time unload all of her stress and frustration on Howard.

Justin Leone

Jimmy's reaction to Howard's confession at the end of Smoke is a complicated one, but so is his part in the insurance fight that led to Chuck's death. Throughout their conflict in the first three seasons, Chuck does many things to hinder and Sabotage Jimmy's career (and vice versa), but he always justifies his actions and deceptions as being not only legal, but in defense of the law itself. What Jimmy did, in alerting the insurance agency to Chuck's condition (and his personal vendettas that legitimately harm HHM's standing), was a very "Chuck" move. It was not only legal, but something that absolutely should be disclosed to the insurance agency. The fact that this eventually led to Chuck's falling out with Howard, and his suicide, actually IS Howard's cross to bear. To be fair to Howard, Chuck's own actions were combative and largely unreasonable, and Howard was somewhat justified in cutting ties with him, but it wasn't the insurance rates going up that killed Chuck. In fact, it seems like only a matter of time before that happened anyway, and it's somewhat surprising that it took Jimmy's breakdown in the office for them to hear about Chuck's state. That said, Jimmy's callous response to Howard is very cold. I wouldn't say this scene is Jimmy at his worst (what he did to Irene in season 3 is a strong contender), but it's close. If he feels any remorse for Chuck's death, he is indeed burying it deep. I think it's there, and I think Kim can faintly detect it, but only just barely. Jimmy has never had much but contempt for Howard. I think the way that Howard treated him late in Season 3 contributes to that. Jimmy's own profit motives aside, Howard absolutely should have settled Sandpiper. In their parking garage argument last season, Jimmy makes a good point that the Sandpiper residents are old, and cannot wait years for a slightly larger settlement, and instead of responding with a counter-argument, Howard responds with sneering derision and insults Jimmy's greed. But who's really more greedy, the wealthy man who has the luxury of holding out indefinitely for more money, or the poor man who needs it now and the elderly who can't wait years for it? Howard is not wrong about Jimmy's motives, but his derision is so nasty, and so hypocritical, and such an abuse of having all the power in that situation, that I can understand why Jimmy would irrevocably hate him for it and use this opportunity to tighten the screws of Howard's remorse.

megamoo chilli

I saw when Jimmy said it was Howard's cross to bear, getting one over on Howard, hurting Howard who'd always played the bigger man and had not ever lowered himself to Jimmy's level of petty sniping, that caused Jimmy greater joy than the numbness of his grief of losing Chuck/ And it also absolves him of guilt in his own mind because Howard's actions were closer to Chuck's downward spiral, even though it was Jimmy and the insurance thing that started it, it was Chuck and Howard falling out that is more responsible for Chuck's death.

Logan Kerlee

Enjoyed watching these with you both! It felt kind of odd getting back into this show for me - though I think that's just because I'm not super hyped with this show. Whatever though! Had an alright time regardless. :)

Tenn Seven

It blew my mind that she didn't win an Emmy based on that scene alone. She is such a talented actor.

Angzarr

In interviews, Vince has explained how he came up as a writer under Chris Carter, show runner of The X-Files, who was a big believer in developing his people and giving them opportunities to grow and advance. Vince went from writing to also producing and directing, and then became show runner of the spinoff The Lone Gunmen. He embraced the same philosophy as a show runner and did the same with staff on BB. He not only knows how to find talented people, but how to let them grow and flourish. I really admire that.

Angzarr

Thank you! That turn always confused me, but in the context of his father it makes so much sense!

Dennis Vollmer

I think that Jimmy's reaction after Howard tells him about forcing Chuck out is all of the things you guys mentioned. Jimmy already suspected that Chuck killed himself, that wasn't news. And I think he was pinning it on what transpired at the bar hearing. Once Howard tells him about forcing Chuck out over the insurance it gives him assurance that his death wasn't the result of being publicly shamed and it gives Jimmy someone else to pin the blame on. People handle grief in different ways and Jimmy being Jimmy had to contrive a way out of being the Catalyst for his brothers death. So he's more than willing to use Howard's actions as cover for his own culpability. And is able to just wash his hands of it the instant the option becomes available. All of the above is of course open to interpretation. I LOVE this show because it never beats you over the head with exposition and tells you exactly what a character is thinking or what their motivations are. Because the show is written and executed so well that you don't have to fall back on contrived or one dimensional reasoning when you start filling in the blanks. BTW, love watching the show all over again with you guys. I got locked into the whole youtube reaction thing during Covid and now it's just something I do... You guys especially. Thanks a bunch for not being a couple of idiots that consistently miss the point of everything :D

Śéáń

Hey guys, This episode is tagged Breaking Bad instead of Better Call Saul, and so is missing from the show collection on Patreon (I'm only just catching up on the S4 watchalong so just noticed it wasn't coming up in searches)

trance

I think Simone's theory about Jimmy's interview with the copier company is correct, and it's not a theory I've heard in other reactions. Jimmy called them "suckers" and his experience with his father as a kid is shaping his psychology here. As for why he suddenly stopped appearing to grieve once Howard told him about the insurance problem. Consider the coincidental appearances of the goldfish. It is a symbol for having a short memory. I don't think Jimmy's trying to distract himself from feeling guilt per se, it's that he's learning to "forget" and ignore his good conscience. That is the effect of what happened with Chuck, a psychological change between who Jimmy has been and who he would become as Saul. From Breaking Bad we know Saul would have to become capable of "forgetting" all of the harmful consequences of criminals he helps or helps succeed like Walter White.

Dustin Duvall

Boosting comment: this video is tagged incorrectly

Thall

I think Mike made the right choice by being seen. The amount of overeager HR people or bookkeepers that accidentally uncover embezzelment etc is pretty high. (Most embezzelment cases go public because of people doing more than they need to) This way, even if someone was checking and wondering, there is no question it's a valid transaction

Captain

You put this in the breaking bad collection by mistake. I had to search for it to find it since it wasnt in the BCS collection