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Star Trek: TNG 403-404 (Patreon)

Published:
2026-03-11 12:00:16
Imported:
2026-03
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Comments

ChiefKC

Star Trek Day!

Forkbeard83

hope they managed to do a couple of three episode days (schedule permitting), as this 12 week wait for George to understand THAT user name is going to get tense.

Robert Cooper

The sick kid plot was just a lazy way to put a clock on the plot, and the plot just doesn't need one.

SuPaTiLt

While I haven't seen Marina Sirtis or Gates McFadden in a whole lot of stuff, Jonathan Frakes has directed a TON of episodes of tv shows I've watched.

ChiefKC

He was also in the North and South miniseries. Marina did voicework for the animated series Gargoyles.

Robert Gendron

Troi as the eye-candy character was a little more palatable when you had Yar in the cast in a regular uniform in a non-feminine (by 80s standards) role. Once Yar left, you had two female characters, both in care-giving roles with one in the revealing outfit. It really unbalanced the gender dynamics when Denise Crosby chose to leave.

Robert Gendron

For the question of what the cast has done Jonathan Frakes is very active as a director, including the current Star trek show Gates McFadden was also a choreographer, but not many tv/movies outside of Star Trek Michael Dorn does a lot of voice acting Marina Sirtis credits TNG as making sure she doesn't have to do any b-movie exploitative roles and does a lot of voice acting Levar Burton is the most prolific, in everything from Roots, to 21 seasons of Reading Rainbow and a ton of acting and directing If you ever watch the old Gargoyles cartoon, you'll recognize half the voices from TNG. A lot of Star Trek actors go heavily into voice acting and directing. Often their first directing credit is for the series they appear in. And a mini reaction to Brent Spiner's appearances on Night Court would be funny.

Data Cable

Now Simone gets to thirst over some gratuitous spandex.

Jeffrey Conway

The issue with Troy is that they over powered her character. They should never have given her the ability to sense people’s emotional state between space ships. The power should have been between people in her presence. Once they over powered her the writers were forced to find ways to cripple those powers or get her off the ship so just plain not use her at all.

ChiefKC

Simone, The purr is strong with that one!

Temba His Arms Wide

I'd love to see you react to The Pitt next time you do a new show.

Young Blood Priest

Growing up in the 70s I remember Michael Dorn from episodes of the Mary Tyler Moore show. But mainly from CHiPs. He was one of the state patrol officers that drove a squad car. He had a bushy porn stasche in those days.

Thall

I think it's fine to educate the prankster kid in the first episode. It seems weird at first, but imagine it would've been today: He scares his brother extremely, then the kid brother runs off and is hit by a car. The lesson shouldn't be "Your fault he got hit by the car", but certainly "Your actions have consequences, sometimes they are unintended but dangerous" Edit: Also, second episode is one of the reasons I absolutely hate Crusher, lol. She is such a holier-than, self-righteous know-it-all

Ea-nāṣir, the worst copper merchant in history!

I understand the point of doing the Brothers-episode the way they did it. First of all, they want an episode with Data, Lore and Soong. This will be very complicated though, having Brent Spiner playing all of them. The best way to do this is to isolate them from the others, so there's no shots where Brent have to interact with the other crew in three different ways, and they have to interact with Brent not being there, playing one of the other roles at the moment. It's too much. Furthermore, they have a week to record each episode. Giving Brent this much work requires them to streamline it as much as possible. But they can't just forget the others. So they have a mirrored plot-line on the ship, and they decide to give that plot-line a sense of urgency. That's all that plot-line is supposed to do.

Joe Concepts

It sure does seem like in that era, you'd be able to copy someone's voice fairly easily. But remember, you couldn't yet do anything like that in 1990. I think you could argue that their computers were able to recognize any artificially recreated voices, but Data was so extremely advanced he could still fool them?

iFixSAN

Gates McFadden not just a choreographer, but a muppet choreographer, with credits on various Jim Henson projects. (Sometimes credited as Cheryl McFadden). Also, she was the once and never again Caroline Ryan, wife to Alec Baldwin’s Jack Ryan in The Hunt for Red October. Brent Spiner had a semi-recurring role in the original Night Court.

REDR58

The problem with the plotline of the two young boys is that it’s just not that interesting. I’ve seen this episode perhaps a half dozen times or more and I usually skip past the part with the kids because I just don’t care about that part of the story.

Andrew

I love "Brothers",. The opening with Data taking command of the ship is classic TNG. I agree the B plot isn't great but they really don't spend too much time with it after the opening and they needed to give a sense of urgency for getting control of the ship back. Also, Brent Spiner is so great playing all three roles.

REDR58

Speaking of him, LeVar Burton was fairly big in the popular culture with the release of the Roots miniseries (as “Kunte Kinte”) from 1977 because it was such *huge* TV event. It was on TV for 8 nights and had tremendous ratings and won a number of awards. Burton got accolades from the start for his performance. https://youtu.be/TSJUgws9M-E?si=3Re7a24lfbQtdtQx

REDR58

That’s the thing though. I don’t care about the other plot. I want to see all of it be about Data throughout the whole episode. I think they could’ve done much more with just him and his father and Lore there instead of rushing it through trying to squeeze in the other story I didn’t care about it all.

Andrew

Exactly. There are many episodes where if Troy was around or not impaired by some outside force she would have resolved the conflict in the first five minutes. They have to get rid of her or subdue her powers in order to tell the story.

Alex Macdougall

Simone catching that the top portion of the blanket looks like Comm (V)badge but not clocking her sweater being perfectly two tone like a starlet uniform is very in character.

Logan Kerlee

Really enjoyed today's episodes! The second was quite emotional and the first also had its fair share as well. :) Overall, great Star Trek Day! :D

Lintrinsic

You wait an entire episode for Brent Spiner and then you get three at once.

TalynOne

Brothers is one of my favorite episodes, I love rewatching it. It's for sure in my top 10. I love Soong's explanation of why he created Data. It's his way of achieving procreation/immortality. The B story is really minor/short and only there to fit into the A story. They spent the exact amount they needed on the B story to establish the A story. Realistic voice cloning is pretty common now, but in the early 90s it was for sure future sci fi that we didn't know how long would take to achieve. Suddenly Human feels like a season 1 episode to me, I usually skip it.

Jamie

Yup I genuinely thought it was intentional until it wasn't

Jamie

You skip past 2 minutes scenes?!

blerbaberpaterb

i think its just that George thought she said vag. thats it.

Elbinho

Does anyone else have the problem that the "do not need your own copy" videos don't load? Using Firefox on Linux I just get a black screen with a play button, no video. This isn't a huge problem as I mostly use the "sync with own copy" versions, because I like to mix the audio myself, and those work flawlessly. But sometimes the other version would be useful for second screen consumption Maybe the versions with the included movie use some kind of DRM?

akaTheBAY-AY-RON

I think "Oh my god, it's Paul Walker" is my favorite call-back ever XD

Will Sofer

George might also be interested in that Michael Dorn was the voice of Marcus, the primary Super Mutant character found in Fallout 2. I know George has played the game at least once, but I’m not sure if he would remember the character.

REDR58

Yep. I have no tolerance for troublesome children!

Cinebinge

hi there, do you have any plugins like privacy badger or any cookie/traffic blocking extensions? this tends to happen as the no sync version is hosted on a site but played through our own custom player.

Flyin H

Anyone know if they are they planning on watching DS9 next?

REDR58

Brothers Lore says he was discovered by a Pakled ship and they are, of course, the "we look for things, things to make us go" species that are a bit more canny than expected, last seen in the second season episode, "Samaritan Snare." Lore is wearing a slightly oversized Pakled "uniform": https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Samaritan_Snare_(episode) I vaguely recall pretty much knowing from the start that Spiner was playing Soong as the "Next time" on Star Trek always gave us a preview back in the day that showed way too much: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uC2s0sVJdRc I'm also fairly certain I read about it in a magazine that Spiner was doing the multiple roles way back when.

REDR58

Oh, also, this seems to be the first time we see those unusual blue emergency lights (blue alert/condition blue) in TNG, though it was seen in at least once TOS movie. Data attempts to whistle "Pop goes the weasel" for his father, which is the tune he was whistling back in the first episode of the series when he met Riker on the Holodeck. There are 15 uses of "Seven" in Data's security code. And according to the Memory Alpha entry on this episode: "The strength of Data's lockout code would potentially require trying 3652 combinations to break it, or 846,700,936,056,091,894,301,310,586,236,842,935,416,138,248,772,949,513,519,821,268,414,868,295,354,679,296 (8.467×1080) combinations – equivalent to cracking a 269-bit key in symmetric cryptography, something that is currently impossible to do."

Jamie

You're the reason we're getting a Black Mirror future :P

Brandon

The whole Jono situation in 'Suddenly Human' kind of reminds me of the main character Uhtred in The Last Kingdom. A Saxon boy who was taken in by a Danish warrior that defeated his people in battle and raised him as a son, alongside his other son. One of the main struggles of Uhtred throughout the series is conflicting loyalties between Saxons and Danes since he is intimately familiar with both worlds and has love for both. And yeah, I'm bringing up The Last Kingdom because I think it would be a great series for G&S to react to some day. 😉

Brandon

There is a great upcoming episode that addresses the use of Troi's power, but I don't want to give anything away until after they've seen it.

Elbinho

Oh damn, I could have sworn I tried deactivating Privacy Badger, but that totally solved it. Thanks!

Thall

I really hope after you get through all the Star TREK, you will give StarGATE a chance. It has incredibly good writing (for a lot of episodes at least) and deals with a lot of issues like Star Trek, but from a "1990-modern" point of view

Thomas Yanez

Concerning Troi ... watching the show in its first run, after Pulaski, Troi was my least favorite character. She's so potentially overpowered that she was probably very difficult to work into a lot of stories without making it a lot harder on the writers to avoid her being able to just shortcut most scenarios. Even when she did show up, it often ended up being yet another "psychic people's problems" episode instead of taking some other more traditional story and turning it on its head with a novel resolution involving her abilities. So, when she was the focus, her stories were usually boring (to me), compared to what they could have been. Also, many times a "Troi Episode" was really just a "Troi's Mom Episode", further reducing the opportunities for Troi-focused episodes.

Young Blood Priest

Yes. Roots was the first ever miniseries. If I’m wrong feel free to correct me but whether it was the first or not it’s at the top of my list for best miniseries. Followed by the Pacific and Band of Brothers.

REDR58

Also also, I really would like to know how Lore “surprised” Data given that Data was immediately suspicious of Lore as soon as he walked in the door!

The Maestro

yeah Troi isn't handled great in this show, she's still a cool character. DS9 handles its women main characters much better

REDR58

This may be a controversial statement by me, but I find Troi's mother far more interesting than Troi herself. It has nothing to do with Mirina Sirtis. She's a fine actor who did some great work in TNG.

REDR58

Suddenly Human Simone, Chad Allen who plays Jono/Jeremiah Rossa in this episode previously starred with Shannen Doherty on a TV series called “Our House” (1986–1988) in which they played brother and sister: https://youtu.be/s1f83hedqGo?si=Bw-2Ck3ba52lRjcY I remember watching that show occasionally at the time it came out, but I don’t remember much about it. When the away team beams onto the alien ship, in the foreground you see a techy-looking prop with two red neon tubes that are blinking on and off. That of course is a very famous techy-looking prop seen in many, many TV episodes and movies (including other TNG episodes and in at least one of the Austin Powers movies. At about 5:37 in this Tested video, you can see a model of this prop and some discussion of its history: https://youtu.be/wWlFKRLVGzQ?si=i4H9V5Yga6QnAo8t George, TNG deals with radiation by taking pills! Marina Sirtis appears in an episode of the Granada Jeremy Brett Sherlock Holmes series episode, “The Six Napoleons”: https://youtu.be/8IYBuV9Q5Bs?si=mrfXZ66baPzxm6GT I’d like to know exactly how Jono built that hammock in Picard’s cabin. He seems to have bolted attachment points for it to the ceiling. I like how complicated-looking the space racquetball room is. How does Jono not understand how to use eating utensils? Do Talarians mash their hands into their food? George the Talarian ship you commented about being cool looking will show up again in a modified configuration in various other episodes/Star Trek series portraying other different alien vessels.

REDR58

I can live with that!

REDR58

Not quite the first, as there were a few other that came before, but it was certainly the *biggest* and popular of its time and for a long time after. There was one called "The Forsyte Saga" (1967) and "QB VII" from 1974 (both which I was ignorant of), the latter starring Anthony Hopkins, and others in the 1950s and 1960s that could be called a miniseries. Here's an interesting write-up on the topic: https://www.mentalfloss.com/entertainment/tv/miniseries-history-70s-80s

John Miller

What bothered me the most about the B plot was, if the boy was going to die, why didn't they send him and Dr. Crusher on a shuttle. The Enterprise does have warp capable shuttles. Even if they aren't fast enough, it's better than sitting there and doing nothing.

Young Blood Priest

Interesting read. The only one of these mentioned in the article I remember is Rich Man Poor Man. I had no idea there were so many in the 50s.

Will Sofer

They’re watching all of Star Trek, so yes.

StonyD

Data's whistling "sounds weird" because he's never been able to master it. This is a direct callback to ENCOUNTER AT FARPOINT, the pilot.

michael denny

The federation always forces its morals on others. This need inadvertently ends up causing more problems and the crew "learns to do better" but the next week same BS. How many times does Picard have to have his mind opened before he finally learns to not be human centrist? I will say this is a product of early trek which eventually gets better over the years. All that said, this is one of the best depictions of trauma in trek. Also, real world example though a little after the aired; remember Elian Gonzalez?

weyland1000

Just can't wait for George and Simone to react to the Picard Star Trek movies .

Will Sofer

He had a long and illustrious career playing a variety of roles in the Star Trek universe, apparently. ;)

Will Sofer

And at least initially, it was more broadly based in reality than most other sci-fi shows, especially of that era. It might become more “space opera” later on, but it starts out with mostly believable stories that are mostly grounded in our reality, using mostly accurate science, and close attention to detail concerning things like military protocol. It’s a neat show. Plus, it has MacGuyver and Kratos in it.

Marcus Hicks

LOL, that Paul Walker joke never gets old 😆.

Angzarr

David Mitchell once described TOS communicators as the "pre nipple punch" ones. So I guess if TNG has nipple-based comms, maybe the next next generation is where we get the "comm vaj"? Seems like it would be difficult to speak into unless one is very flexible though. And you can write your own joke about difficulties finding the button...

Angzarr

And George, if you like eye candy.... you are going to very much enjoy one of the other shows.

The Real Andrew Kim

A lot of the star trek cast usually go on to work alot bts in modern movie and tv production even today. I remember Gates had a bit part Hunt for Red October and was a choreographer on labyrinth. Jonathan Frakes went on to be a very successful tv and movie director. Also keep an eye out on the directors of episodes moving forward. I think it was beginning around season 3 or 4 that a lot of the episode were directed by current and past cast members which is a trend in all of the 90s/2000s trek. The Trek production had an actual teaching program for cast members to learn about production and directing.

Angzarr

I could have sworn it was Patriot Games she was in, but you're right, it was Anne Archer in that one. I think Frakes was mostly behind the camera after TNG? I know he's done a lot of directing work. Brent Spiner was even intended to become a regular on Night Court, had he not left for TNG. Now I'm imaging if Bob Wheeler had also turned up at Soong's place, with Spiner playing four roles... And while I'm being silly, it would have been hilarious if they had cast Diana Muldaur instead of Anne Archer in Patriot Games. Kind of a Henry-Winkler-and-Scott-Baio-in-Arrested-Development thing.

gfixler

Jono's thing seems so simple and obvious to me. He's reached the age of decision. He can do what he wants. Go home with his adoptive father, and continue communications with his admiral grandmother in the Federation. Over time, build up a rapport, and then go visit. Stay for a while. You can have two families. My parents split when I was 2, and I just went back and forth my whole life. It was great. I had Sega at my mom's, and Nintendo at my dad's. I had four different families (mom, dad, stepmom, stepdad), so I got way more Christmas and birthday gifts. I got a computer at mom's, and sports stuff at dad's. Mom was a hard worker, and had chores for me to do all the time. Dad was laid back, so I got to go chill at his place, and watch all the Saturday morning cartoons. It's not one or the other; Jono just has bigger family now. He could even act as a kind of diplomat between the two peoples eventually, as he learns to understand both.

gfixler

Until they clarified, I thought George thought she said "c*m b**ch". I censored it, because I'm classy.

Gwydify

Levar Burton did Reading Rainbow and was in Roots.

Simon Pegged Me

Brothers "Data has restricted our access to the ship's essential systems with a passcode." "A passcode? Why didn't we think of that?" Seriously, it was far too easy for Data to take over the ship. There were nearly no restrictions on access to life support or engineering in general to prevent Data or anyone from accessing control of the ship. Worse, the most sophisticated computer in the Federation is bamboozled by a voice impression. I thought for sure the computer would respond "Nice try, asshole. But Captain Picard is not on the bridge." I know it had to happen, but taking over the ship didn't have to be that easy. Somebody—looking at you Worf—should do a review of the ship's security protocols. In the aftermath of this episode, there should have been serious consequences for Data. One, Star Fleet should reconsider Data's potential for advancement in the command division. Data, essentially, was hacked and used to take over the flag ship of the Federation. That should concern everyone, especially after the science division collects Dr. Soong's notes and lab and learns how to do it. As indispensable as Data is, he can no longer be trusted with command of a star ship. A hackable species is a liability in that position. Two, now that everyone knows Lore is a live, no one will be able to trust Data. His identical twin brother, a mass murderer, has the ability to go anywhere in Federation territory in Data's suit with Data's com badge pretending to be him. Until Lore is captured, Data should have the equivalent of an ankle monitor so the Federation knows where he is at all times. That way if Lore pops up somewhere else they know immediately that he's the mass murderer, not the Starfleet officer.

Jamie

They'd have to fit the shuttle with all the medical equipment I guess. Maybe a little line contemplating options would have been good, but ultimately adds nothing to the plot

s0rd3z

I really want to get caught up on The Stormlight Archive. I am just about to finish Oathbreaker and get into Rhythm of War but I also have yet to read the newest Mistborn novel. I have avoided info as I am not sure what era it is, would love more Wax & Wayne but I also really like how he approaches the different eras and am curious if the newest was even further in the future (that's rhetorical please don't tell me ). So yeah, if you know you know. Yay for Star Trek day :)

s0rd3z

It's double edged in this scenario to because of her profession. Therapy, counseling and things of this nature were viewed as weak and not valid by a lot of folks back then. So on top of the at times bad writing of females, some writers very much struggled with any type of therapy or what her job entails. So unless her telepathy was needed she got shoved aside a fair amount. She does get her moments and at times it's handled very well. I think it depends on the writer though. This is also a lot of the reasoning behind Denise Crosby leaving as well. She felt more like eye candy than anything else a lot of the times.

Paul

Why would Data, the third in command of the entire ship by rank, be restricted by anything? Even if there were access codes, he'd naturally as part of his rank have access to all of it. As far as taking full command of the ship's bridge via Picard's authority, no code does seem like a vulnerability but, at the time this episode was written, the idea of recreating someone's voice was essentially thought impossible, it'd be like people in 2060 watching a 2026 show that only used 256-bit encryption, which for them would be instantly broken via quantum computers. Times change, security that is sensible by their knowledge is laughable by ours, but that's just a product of when it was produced. I do agree that Data is a security risk, though I imagine off-screen they analyze that possibility, maybe with Soong's work, it's clear that "hacking" data is no easy feat, Soong had a backdoor into his systems that he built himself.

Paul

What are you referring to exactly? If a human child was abducted in war and raised by another culture and species but also had living kin that wanted to see him back home... none of this is about human centric morals. It's just family. Ultimately, they allowed him to make his own choice, which is sensible (maybe the only flaw is he's only 14 - major decision to leave on a kid's shoulders). This is a great episode precisely because there's no perfect solution. On either side, real family either by blood or history, loses a loved one.

Blackbaldrik

Given he's a walking supercomputer and he's pretty much constantly typing in commands at incredible speed during the takeover, it seems very likely he was accessing backdoors to meticulously strip away authentication requirements for certain commands so he didn't need a verbal code for it, as well as probably spoofing Picard's location in the computer's sensors. Data is also likely capable of voice mimicry far beyond any existing technology outside of himself and Lore, plus he may have lowered that guardrail as well. Now, I don't know why they didn't think of the possibility of Data getting hacked before it happened, but after this event they probably DID take precautions to make sure it doesn't happen again, including probably putting some kind of identification system inside Data, and removing the homing component. We just don't get to see it on-screen. And I don't think Starfleet would impose consequences on Data, he was obviously forced to do things against his will. He was a victim. Your point that they would/should give serious second thought to him having permanent command of a ship is valid though. As many barriers as they can put in front of something like this, it would always remain a possibility.

Will Sofer

@Angzarr I think both Voyager and Enterprise would qualify.

David N

Was anyone watching those 2 boys when they went down to the planet to laser fight? I know their parents werent on the enterprise at the time but was no one supervising them at all? Maybe a primer on the planet given to the older brother before they are left alone would have been prudent.

gfixler

Yes, Gates' birth name is Cheryl Gates McFadden. When doing choreography work, like in labyrinth, she would use, and be credited as, Cheryl McFadden, and when acting, she would use the name Gates McFadden.

REDR58

Additionally, who is spending time with them when they’re on the ship by themselves? Do they have some sort of chaperone?

REDR58

That seems like the best solution

Liquor & Swords

CHaperone? Are you noting their ages? They should be allowed to have free reign of the ship! Be home before the night shift lights come on and if you're gonna drink from the hose in the arboretum, let it run for a minute until the water gets cold!

MacGuffinStuff

That egregiously annoying mourning wail of the Tellerians (spelling?) makes sense if you think about it from the perspective of, "I'm very unhappy right now and so will everyone else in earshot be, suck it." Sherman Howard, who did a great job as Captain Endar, was in George Romero's "Day Of The Dead" (1985), and he was probably my favorite character, despite having virtually no lines. Being able to make a character compelling and sympathetic under makeup and with almost zero dialogue is pretty impressive. Gonna rewatch Del Toro's "Frankenstein", he had more lines but still, amazing.

Robert Mendoza

Brothers just demonstrates how OP Data is. The rest of the crew must be glad that under normal circumstances he wouldn't take over the ship. That he's not Paul Walker comment gave me such a laugh. Simone will never live that one down. Kitty purrs!

Simon Pegged Me

Paul, I think there are aspect of captaining the ship that should be restricted by rank and that the third in command should not have full captain authority without having command properly transferred to him. Although this isn't related to a ship, we saw in Wrath of Khan, that Admr. Kirk had access to Genesis information that was protected by retinal scan and voice command. We've also seen that on ships, the self-destruct command is restricted by rank and command. Even the logic of this episode, in which Data acting as Picard creates a passcode to prevent anyone else from overriding his command, suggests there are actions that can be restricted to the commanding officer. If not, he would not have needed to assume the identity of the captain to execute his plan. Blackbaldrik, if that is what happened, Data stripping away authentication requirements and disguising the location of the captain, I think that should have been explained and not simply left to the audience to induce from Data's success. Data's one-man takeover of the ship is a marvel, and the writers should have made it more clear how amazing he is to be able to do it.

Andrew

I love the Lwaxana episodes. Is she an annoying to the other characters? Yes but she's supposed to be. That's the way she is written. It's good writing and great acting by Majel Barrett.

Paul

I agree with you Simon, that full 100% control of the ship should be limited, and is. The few access points Data didn't have; he impersonated Picard's voice to obtain. That's all. It's a security feature that at the time was perfect, but to us is silly and easily defeated.

Simon Pegged Me

Paul, sorry if I misconstrued what you said. I see your point, and I agree.

PoindexterG

I'm reminded of the real life story of Cynthia Ann Parker. She was from a family that settled at a fort in Texas in the 1830s. Some of the Comanche saw that settlement as a threat and raided it, killing most everyone there. But young Cynthia Ann was taken by them and raised as a Comanche. She took a husband and had children with him. Years later Texas Rangers raided a Comanche settlement and found a blond haired, blue eyed woman living with the Comanche. They "rescued" her, and put together that she was Cynthia Ann. Her story from here on was not as happy as Jono's. She was never happy back with white people. She tried to flee several times, but her family always kept her from leaving. She had an infant daughter when they found her. After the baby died, she seemed to lose all will to live. People say she died of a broken heart.