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Vinland Saga 2 x 4 (Patreon)

Published:
2026-01-14 18:29:12
Edited:
2026-04-20 06:25:30
Imported:
2026-09
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Dillon leeming

I love this episode, thorfinns reaction to snake i saw as an actual threat is here now, not some goober called fox. I understand einars frustration at thorfinns manners but also my boy was raised by vikings you think those fuckers said please and thank you ?. I also think " I don't remember how many" is an answer in it's self. 5 or 10 einar ? 5 or 10 a day maybe. The life of warriors final reward trauma and nightmares

Olivia Newcomb

I think it would be easy to blame Thorfinn at first. Not saying I do, but I can see why. Thorfinn has killed people. Having nightmares about it doesn't wipe the blood away from his hands, and he hasn't begun to earn redemption. He hasn't begun to do anything to prove he is a different person.

Sam

I'm glad to see that you're enjoying season two even more than season one. Personally, I feel that, while season one is amazing, for me, season two elevates the story into a masterpiece. I remember back when this arc was being published, the tone shift from the prologue was controversial. Although, interestingly enough, there wasn't anywhere near the same backlash when it was adapted into the anime.

Erjon Sejdijaj

This episode was one of four that were storyboarded by the all too amazing Atsushi Kobayashi. Even for a season as amazing as this one, that still functions as a true mark of how great the episode is going to be. He also, for example, storyboarded the village massacre in s1. In an interview with the author, series director, and Kobayashi, the director said he was jealous of him, and that "he gets all the good ones" lol. So much to discuss this episode. The "strong kill the weak" idea actually goes as far back as episode 6 in the anime, where I believe the second piece of advice Askeladd ever gave to Thorfinn was "on the battlefield, the weak die first. Like you." Something that I also somehow only realised now is that Thorfinn saying this to Einar establishes that he considers himself among the weak, and among those deserving to be killed. Don't know how I only put that together now, but yeah, his mental state is absolutely fucked here. It's also why I think you read the part where he was going back to the forest wrong. I don't think it's because he's had a change of heart, but purely because he genuinely doesn't know what else to do in a day. Thorfinn "resting up" just means being stuck with his thoughts and his trauma - even cutting trees would be better. You say "we've all done things we regret" which is certainly true, but there's levels to it aren't there. A lot lies in between of "I should've worked harder for school" and "I've lost count of the amount of people's deaths I'm responsible for." It's also not true that he didn't have a choice but to fight, as there have been numerous occasions for him to drop it alltogether if he had wanted to. He didn't *have* to burn the house to alert the raiders in ep 6, which lead to the deaths of countless innocents, but he chose to do so anyway. He could've lived a happy life with that family, slowly learning the language, and growing together. But he didn't. Later, when Leif found him, he threw away any notion of returning home, saying it wouldn't be enough as long as Askeladd was still breathing and shitting. Understandable? Maybe. But absolutely a conscious choice on his part. Thorfinn's mental state is so unfathomably awful at this point, that even the notion of *having* a purpose seems foreign to him. I think going as far as to say that he'd have any even semi-concrete goal in his mind currently would be several bridges too far. His life currently is nothing more than going through the motions, probably hoping someone kills him so he doesn't have to do it himself. Regarding Einar. We obviously have a lot of context surrounding Thorfinn and the kind of person he was and now is, but Einar obviously lacks all of that. It could be interesting to imagine watching these 4 episodes disregarding the entirety of season 1. A perspective where we're introduced to the setting through Einar, and where Thorfinn is the side character he's introduced as. How would our opinions of him change then? He'd be reduced to an enigma; an obviously traumatised war veteran who's killed countless people. How easy would it truly be for Einar to accept a man like that into his life, when his entire family was murdered by just those kinds of people mere months ago? One small final thing (god I go on long in these), but it's a detail I found really cute. Einar obviously didn't wake Thorfinn up in this episode. If anything, he tried to choke him out, and only stopped when he realised he wasn't the one eliciting the screams and moans. So what actually happened was that Einar chocked a slowly waking Thorfinn out, stopped, then when Thorfinn started his screams he grabbed a hold of Einar's shirt, and when he got to his senses, he interpreted all that as Einar trying to wake him up. Bless his heart, man.

Mickael Landry

The design of your earring is pretty cool✌️☀️🦋🌙 I found the interaction between Thorfinn and Snake at the beginning fascinating. Despite being resigned to death, Thorfinn instinctively fight back against Snake.  When faced with a sudden, life-threatening attack, his body would react before his conscious mind could fully process the situation; like a primal survival mechanism. You did mentioned that in the previous episode.👏 Thorfinn may also have reacted as a result of subconscious programming. Seeing Snake's eyes, Thorfinn is instantly reminded of Askeladd and his past duels. Through consistent experiences, the body can establish subconscious programs that influence its actions in particular circumstances. For instance, a soldier trained to respond to certain threats might instinctively seek cover or draw their weapon, even if they are not consciously aware of the imminent danger. Ultimately, I believe that Thorfinn still has deep in his subconscious a dream of reaching Vinland and establishing a peaceful settlement. While he has been in a state of despair, the desire to achieve this goal likely still lingered in his subconscious. The attack by Snake could have triggered a renewed sense of purpose, even if only momentarily. Sorry if I'm overanalyzing, but I found this scene very interesting. ^^

Mickael Landry

The twigs scattered on the ground symbolizing the number of victims who have fallen to Thorfinn's blades. Each twig signifies a life he has claimed directly and indirectly, whether it be warriors or innocents, having contributed to the massacres of villagers through scouting. Makoto Yukimura truly excels in the art of visual storytelling, and since we know you appreciate symbolism, you'll see this once more throughout this season! 🎉

Don Ratto

just a little headsup here since i doubt anyone will mention it as you get closer. after you watch episode 6 there is an official "episode 6.5" uploaded on the official mappa youtube channel that gives just a touch more. its just under 3min and its in no way essential to the story but it is an interesting little watch. there as also an episode 18.5 if interested when that comes around too!

Inugami

First time commenting,Thorfinn is on a new path of redemption, so to speak, but we mustn't forget that most of his actions are unjustified. Thorfinn did have a choice when Thors was killed, and he chose the path of revenge, an empty revenge that led him to commit atrocities against innocent people (the woman and girl who helped him in the first season), not to mention the atrocities committed during the Viking invasions (murder, theft, rape, the sale of slaves). Thorfinn, as much as he is our protagonist, is complicit in all of this. Vinland Saga handles its themes so well that the question here is, can a man with such a past change? How can he do it? That's why Einar is a great example of how to complement Thorfinn. Einar is an ordinary person, someone who has suffered what Thorfinn himself has inflicted on others. I can't wait to see your reactions to future important events 🫰🏻

Mickael Landry

"I can't understand how he can blame Thorfinn" I'm slightly at odd with your take on Thorfinn here; he was in a way both a victim and a perpetrator. 😅 To me, Thorfinn is also responsible for the deaths of innocent villagers in season 1 (see visual @ 27:18). He was a member of Askeladd's band of Vikings, who pillage and kill as a way of life. While Thorfinn's primary goal was to duel Askeladd, he actively helped in the violence and raids that led to the deaths -or even the distress- of innocent people. While Thorfinn's traumatic childhood offers context for his actions in season 1, it shouldn't excuse his culpability in the deaths of innocent villagers. This is particularly stark when contrasted with Einar, who experienced firsthand the brutality of Viking raids and witnessed the murder of his family. Einar can't blame Thorfinn for his direct family's death but I think his initial rage at that moment is understandable though, fueled by the knowledge that individuals like Thorfinn, or those he associated with, were responsible for his pain. The fact that Thorfinn is haunted by the memory of the old woman, whose hospitality he betrayed by leading Askeladd's men to her village, highlights the weight of his guilt and the consequences of his choices.

Mickael Landry

I mostly agree with Sophie, about 90% to 95% of the time, but I do believe also Thorfinn had the choice. 🗣"He didn't *have* to set the house on fire to signal the raiders in episode 6, which resulted in the deaths of many innocent people, yet he made that choice anyway." I empathized with Thorfinn after Thors' death, but this is the point where I lost my connection with him for a certain part of Season 1.

Mickael Landry

Ultimately, forgiveness hinges on demonstrable remorse and a commitment to making amends. While Thorfinn's past is understandable, true redemption requires him to actively work towards creating a better world. Until he fully embraces this path, forgiveness remains difficult to grant. This is similar to the situation with Gabi in Attack on Titan. Despite her youth, her actions demanded accountability. It was only through her eventual regret and dedication to self-improvement, guided by a more ethical path, that any sense of forgiveness became possible. Both characters highlight the crucial point that regret alone is insufficient; genuine change requires active effort and a commitment to a better future.

Kirk Murray

Damn. I hope you give all the mass murders as much leeway as you’re giving thorfin.

Olivia Newcomb

Completely agree, you took the words out of my mouth!

icyfire

God this show is so heavy 😭😭 I always find it amazing how you're able to understand every character's actions, even if you don't necessarily agree with them!

icyfire

Also I think the reason why Einar was so ticked off at Thorfinn saying he wouldn't mind dying, is because Einar himself had to fight through that mentality (and still likely is trying to) to honour his Mother's wishes. It definitely hit a soft spot for him, and it seems like he was reprimanding himself as well as Thorfinn for that sort of thinking.

DrSophieDarlingReacts

He was a child and in this environment it's do or die. What would you have him do? He needs to survive. Are we going to condemn all child soldiers coerced into fighting because they have no other choice? We have to also remember the socialised environment and normalisation of violence that he's grown up with since his father's death at the age of 6. We cannot judge his actions the same way as we judge an adults.

DrSophieDarlingReacts

We cannot blame Thorfinn in the same way as an adult. He was socialised into that environment and did what it takes to survive. Does that mean he's excusable? No. But he's blaming Thorfinn for the DEATH OF HIS FAMILY which Thorfinn was not involved in. That's what I'm saying. He cannot blame Thorfinn for that specific instance that he's wanting to exact revenge for. I never said his rage wasn't justified but that both of them are victims of trauma and the cycle of revenge. Are we going to sit and blame child soldiers for having no other choice but to fight? No - we empathise and understand that the situation they were forced into was far from the norm and don't place our modern concepts of right and wrong onto an environment that is outside of that historically. The same rules do not apply in that period.

DrSophieDarlingReacts

I would disagree that it was a choice. We're completely ignoring the socialisation and normalisation of violence. When a child becomes subsumed into that cycle it becomes impossible to distinguish what is right or wrong - all that matters is survival. You say that as if Askeladd wouldn't have stumbled across the village anyway. They weren't far. We're placing our moralistic modernised perspective onto a different time and historical period. We're also condemning a child whose sense of rationalisation is going to be completely off base. Do we blame child soldiers for what they end up doing because of the environment they were raised in? No. We emphasise. We don't excuse the harm they've caused but we can empathise with the horrible situation they had to embrace in order to exist within this world.

DrSophieDarlingReacts

I mean we're expecting a child to behave rationally. I think we're placing too much expectation rather than looking at it from the perspective of a literal child thrust into an environment of violence and its normalisation whilst wrestling with the loss of his father.

DrSophieDarlingReacts

Which he's working towards in not forgetting the blood that he'd shed and wrestling with that guilt. If he felt no remorse for his actions - it wouldn't haunt him. Again, I feel it's rather harsh assessment rather than looking at it from the perspective of a child socialised into violence. I never said his actions were excusable BUT he is a victim too nonetheless. Much in the same way I didn't hate Gabi - I don't judge or hate Thorfinn for being a victim of his environment. This isn't towards your comment Olivia haha!

DrSophieDarlingReacts

THANK YOU! I think people are being rather harsh in their assessment of Thorfinn - forgetting that he was absorbed into that life from the age of 6 and really didn't have much of a choice. He's a victim as much as Einar is. We hold him accountable of course - BUT we can also empathise!

Vivasvan Gautam

Aaaha! I am loving the discussions in the comments. I really appreciate your compassion towards Thorfinn, Dr. Sophie. I do think Thorfinn needs compassion. And alongwith it we can also recognize the inexcusable harms he has done as you have mentioned in one of your comments. Both can exist together. These both statements are truths and can be placed side by side without cancelling or erasing the other. God, this only makes me excited about remaining episodes of this season. You mentioned that it is your favourite episode of this season thus far. I am telling you now Dr. Sophie, you may have to repeat this statement few times in this season lol.

icyfire

I guess I want to touch on the discussion of accountability and morality here with Thorfinn. I personally think there are two distinct ways of looking at it, that some people are missing. There's accountability and there's judgement of character. I think it's entirely possible to admit that children are not accountable for their actions, while judging a kid as a 'shitty' kid, if you know what I'm saying. Thorfinn was without a doubt, a horrible, horrible kid (though I empathise how he got there as is the point of the show), BUT I do not think we can hold him entirely accountable for his decisions as a child.

Mickael Landry

I see where you're coming from Sophie, and I agree that the soldier child is by its nature a complex issue with many valid viewpoints. My aim in this context was actually not really to persuade you, as your perspective is legit, even if it may not aligned with everyone else's. I just wanted to provide you with an alternative perspective to enhance your reflection. 👐 My difficulty lies in reducing due to his youth, Thorfinn's participation in the massacres of villagers. While I could understand him acting in self-defense against warriors and soldiers, his choice to cause or bring violence on innocent civilians, including women and children, to take part in the looting and destruction of their homes is deeply troubling. He experienced himself the profound loss of his father, a man who valued peace, yet he perpetuated that same cycle of violence on villagers. This feels particularly egregious and hypocrite, as he knew the cost of such violence. While his difficult upbringing certainly influenced him, it doesn't to me negate his culpability in these sort of acts. "Do not do unto others what you would not have them do unto you." Ignoring the core principle of this saying, although Thorfinn's childhood was undeniably tragic and being raised among a group of outlaws has certainly influenced him, I think he still has to take some responsibility (partially at the very least) for the choices he made and the pain he caused in that specific regard. In my view, this is primarily where the blame lies. To be frankly honest, If I had been in Einar's shoes and had his past, I believe I would have probably acted the same way towards Thorfinn. Particularly after listening to him say, "The strong kill the weak" as a form of legitimacy. I understand your viewpoint, and I could be mistaken, but this how I feel. 🙂

Erjon Sejdijaj

I mean I see where you're coming from, but if at any point in those 11 odd years Thorfinn didn't return, Askeladd would just presume he died somewhere. It's what he says everytime Thorfinn is even somewhat late. Thorfinn was their scout, meant to see if the place was safe to raid and worth raiding. If he hadn't given the signal and be left presumed dead, there'd be no reason for them to follow up on him, especially not for a man as clever as Askeladd. Besides, that village was just an example. There would have been countless opportunities for him to leave, countless opportunities he rejected each time. I agree with you about the culture and the normalisation of violence, but all this means is that his choice becomes an understandable one; it doesn't remove his agency from his actions. Not to mention, stowing away on Askeladd's ship in the first place was a conscious choice of his, despite him being a child back then. The point is that however understandable his actions were, he chose the actions he did every step of the way. No one from Askeladd's crew would be bothered to find the "kid who follows us around" to be gone one day.

DrSophieDarlingReacts

Choice is a difficult one to define within children. They are so heavily influenced and believe that what they see is normalised thus act in accordance with it. I've done a lot of research into socialisation and violence within children as part of my PhD and choice seems an easy thing until you are the one in that position and you find yourself no longer knowing right from wrong. What seems an easy choice to make in hindsight is difficult when we are the one in that situation. I'm not advocating for Thorfinn to not be responsible. When I say he's not to blame that's solely in relation to Einar's parents and his sister's death because he wasn't. That doesn't mean he's not accountable for the deaths of others which is why he's haunted because he's trying to change and make a difference. We're putting a lot of expectation onto a child to define right from wrong, good from bad, when all of that is blurred in war and conquest especially in a society so heavily entrenched in the honour of fighting and bloodshed. I don't want this to come across like me arguing so I must stress that I really appreciate the alternative perspectives and the engaging conversation even if we don't see eye to eye haha! I realise sometimes I can be quite blunt in my writing (academic in me) that it comes across as me shutting down others so I do apologise! :D

DrSophieDarlingReacts

Whilst I do appreciate your perspective - I don't think we'll see eye to eye as I'm not excusing Thorfinn's responsibility or participation but I am looking at it from the perspective of a child socialised into violence and hatred. In war the lines between good and bad, right and wrong become so easily blurred, and when you've spent so long entrenched in that, longer than the time you spent with your father, choice becomes easier said than done. Thorfinn is haunted by his past which is a sign of maturity and understanding of the pain he's caused - something he lacked as a child. Someone who doesn't take responsibility wouldn't be haunted. It's so easy for us to say that Thorfinn is a hypocrite but that's a very harsh judgement to place onto a child. No one is saying that he's not responsible or accountable, but that we have to understand him as a victim too. We are seeing the consequence of childhood socialisation and the normalisation of violence in Thorfinn much the same way as Gabi and you were much kinder in your approach to her than Thorfinn which is why I am rather confused. This also isn't to say that Thorfinn won't take responsibility but it's a journey and a process. Thorfinn's words of 'the strong kill the weak' is learned rhetoric again from childhood socialisation of what he's seen and experienced. We're expecting him to behave in a way that's counter to his upbringing as if he isn't a product of it. It's very evident the focus is on the impact of violence on children and how they unlearn the trauma they've experienced whilst taking responsibility for the harm they've caused. Einar's anger is legitimate. Again - I would never deny him that. My point merely was that his anger at Thorfinn for the death of his family is NOT as he comes to realise himself that Thorfinn didn't kill them or participate. His anger and need for revenge wouldn't have solved the pain. Thorfinn is not innocent but he was innocent when it came to that. We also are talking about a historical period of time where Thorfinn's actions were justified and sanctified as cultural and part of everyday life. We cannot blame him for believing that's how he needed to behave in order to survive when the world has shown him no other way to be. Also I appreciate the engaging conversation! Sorry if my words come across as blunt (the academic in me) but I do love to hear counter opinions even if they don't align with my perspective!

Erjon Sejdijaj

I think the point moreso is that while most would say he isn't to blame for his choices, at least his initial ones, he should still be held responsible for them. I agree with you that it's easy for us to look at the situation and think he should've done this or that, but the point is that he was still the one who made those choices. As a 6 year old he's hardly to blame, but by the end when he's 17 he absolutely is a moron who refuses to choose for himself. Wherever that crossover happened, he is the one responsible for it. I think the way you phrased things this episode came across as absolving Thorfinn from any and all blame because he didn't know any better, which I found myself disagreeing with as you might be able to tell (lol). What you wrote here makes much more sense to me. Also don't worry about being blunt, it's actually something I appreciate as I know your stance clearly and effectively! I appreciate being able to have this little discussion in the first place

Mickael Landry

Thank you for raising such insightful points. 🙏You’re right to point out a parallel between Gabi from Attack on Titan and Thorfinn from Vinland Saga, both tragic examples of child soldiers thrust into violence at a young age. While they share commonalities, such as the impact of their environments and early encounters with brutality, a significant distinction exists for me between the two. Unlike Gabi, who grew up in a context where Eldians were consistently dehumanized and viewed as enemies, Thorfinn possesses to my view a more nuanced understanding of morality. He recognizes that the villagers are not inherently bad; rather, they are individuals with their own lives and stories. For instance in Season 1, he accepts the hospitality of an elderly woman and her daughter, sleeping under their roof and sharing their food, only to later warn them to flee before Askeladd's troops arrive. This awareness renders his actions all the more tragic and difficult to forgive. In contrast, Gabi would likely dismiss the villagers' plight, acting under an ideology that has taught her to view strangers as monsters. Although she commits violent acts, her lack of complete understanding of the complexities of her situation may evoke a certain sympathy. She is a total product of brainwashing. Thorfinn, as a young individual, has been (more) acutely aware of the consequences of his actions. He understands that the villagers do not pose a threat to him and are not inherently evil. However, his quest for  personal vengeance leads him to kill many, often innocent soldiers or civilians caught in the crossfire of the wars he engages in with Askeladd's band. He struggled to recognize that the pain he inflicted mirrors the suffering he himself has endured. The challenge of forgiving Thorfinn, compared to Gabi, lies in his awareness of the repercussions of his actions and his personal responsibility, this is the point at which we appear to disagree. While Gabi often acted out of pure ignorance, persuaded that her actions were justified, Thorfinn's understanding of the pain he causes, yet continuing to act without regard, makes his journey toward redemption all the more significant and burdened with guilt. I see Thorfinn as both a perpetrator motivated by a desire for revenge and a victim of his own trauma who is later in search of redemption and peace. To me, ultimately, he should be hold PARTIALLY accountable.✅️⚖️❌️ It allows for a middle ground where we can acknowledge Thorfinn's culpability to some extent, while also recognizing the significant influence of his environment and upbringing.

Mickael Landry

I was a bit concerned Sophie that you may feel rushed by my perspective or that of someone else.🙏 I've noticed that one of the members was a bit harsh in awkwardly mocking your opinion, and I hope that doesn't make you uncomfortable. Your takes are completely understandable and justifiable; you're not expressing anything unreasonable. Thorfinn's normalization of violence, raised by Askeladd and his gang, can fairly lead one to believe that he is entirely a victim of his circumstances and has been unable to differentiate between right and wrong since childhood, especially in a time and blurred context that glorify brutal acts. This is a valid position that can be fully shared. I understand your feelings, you might be 100% in the right. 😇 I value then your willingness to engage in constructive conversations and hear different viewpoints. Participating in respectful discussions can result in meaningful insights and development for all parties involved. I often find it beneficial to regularly question my observations based on your analysis. I can't wait to see your next reaction! 😉

Mickael Landry

🗣"Choice is a difficult one to define within children. Choice seems an easy thing until you are the one in that position and you find yourself no longer knowing right from wrong." This statement resonates profoundly, particularly when reflecting on the experiences of children, as you’ve detailed. Given your extensive studies on the topic, we have every reason to trust your insight. 📚🤓 While I might slightly alter the emphasis, I think this viewpoint clarifies why some young adults in their late teens and early twenties may later regret forming relationships with much older partners and blame themselves for their past decisions. Similarly, as you expertly point out in TAD, the situation of young Anshi, who held herself accountable for pursuing the former Emperor and felt she deserved her outcome, powerfully illustrates this idea. It's crucial to acknowledge that the frontal lobes, responsible for decision-making, impulse control, and reasoning, continue to mature into a person's mid-20s. This ongoing development can cause children and teenagers to act impulsively or make decisions influenced more by emotions than by logical reasoning. Grasping this facet of brain development can enable caregivers and educators to offer more effective support and guidance to young individuals as they navigate their feelings and make significant choices. If there’s one aspect we shouldn't hold young Thorfinn accountable for, it’s his impulsive decision to pursue Askeladd driven by his desire for vengeance for his father’s death, a hero he witnessed being killed before his very eyes.