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(Preview) Israel-Gaza | Honest Government Ad (Patreon)

Published:
2023-10-25 07:07:42
Edited:
2023-10-25 12:40:27
Imported:
2026-06
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Dear Patrons

Here's the preview of our next Honest Government Ad. It's about the current situation in Israel and Gaza. Yeah... a simple, uncontroversial topic for a change :-/It's hard to say anything about this conflict without pissing off someone. But it's even harder to say nothing when thousands of civilians, including children, are being killed daily. So I've tried to say something that focuses on one thing we should all be able to agree on right now: children and civilians need to stop being killed right now.A reminder: this is an audio-only preview, and some things will only make sense when you can see the visuals. And for a topic like this, it's particularly important to mention this so that you know that when talking, for example, about the "massacre of civilians and children", the visuals make it clear we're refering to both Hamas and Israel.As always, constructive feedback would be warmly welcomed. In particular, let me know if you spot any factual inaccuracies; in which case I'll do my best to correct them before we publish.

I realise this is a very sensitive subject, but please be civil if you reply to each others' comments.I'll catch you very soon with the videoGiordano

Comments

Nimbus Minx

Sadly, the news reporting and history education of the region is negligible in this country. We only get, at best, one side, and then only when something like the current mess gets started. After that, it's back to blissful ignorance.

Martin Linger

There's a program on German telly showing the news from 20 years ago. The other day one comedian said if current affairs make you sad, why not watch the news from 20 years ago and then they showed a clip of the Gaza conflict exactly 20 years ago. 😫

Palitja Moore

The video is well put for a fucked situation that mostly fucks over innocent people. Most Australians don't know what to think about this issue and, who knows, they might even all agree that both sides should give peace a chance.

Martin Linger

The German government made a statement the other day saying there's only one place for us and we firmly stand by Israel's side. I get it, the Nazis killed 6 million Jews and are partly to blame for today's mess but we must not condone what Israel does to the Palestinian civilians.

DaveM

I have been a Patreon of thejuicemedia for over two years, but am ending my support today. This ad is not honest - it is reductive, ignores the complexity of the laws of war per the Geneva conventions, and the suddenly-percieved existential threat to Israel. Finding balanced research to create an informative ad is not difficult - here is an article to start you off: https://www.timesofisrael.com/is-the-idfs-ongoing-gaza-operation-complying-with-the-laws-of-war/ Viewers might also not understand that Hamas is completely indiscriminate in its attacks - killing and mutilating Arab, Thai and Bedouin women and children along with Jewish Israelis, quite aside from using their own civilians as slave labour and human shields. They are in many ways worse than ISIS or the Nazis - who didn't abuse their own followers like Hamas does - and must face the same fate. https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-769851 https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/10/why-israeli-officials-screened-footage-hamas-attack/675735/ https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/mourning-with-our-bedouin-blood-brothers/ If you want to actually help, encourage the international community to call for Hamas' surrender - which would actually end the bloodshed - not for a ceasefire that would guarantee an indefinite continuation of maiming and slaughter on both 'sides' and ongoing oppression of Palestinians by their Hamas leaders: https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/how-the-left-can-end-the-gaza-war/ https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/06/30/palestine-impunity-arbitrary-arrests-torture

thejuicemedia

Hi Dave - what part of the video is incorrect? The ad says what Hamas did is fucked and illegal. Sounds like you wanted my condemnation to be more specific. But is it wrong? The ad says what Israel is doing is also fucked and illegal. You seem to be suggesting that I should have based my ad on an article in the Times of Israel. Perhaps an article by a respected, independent human rights organisation would be more appropriate? https://www.amnesty.org.au/damning-evidence-of-war-crimes-as-israeli-attacks-wipe-out-entire-families-in-gaza/ I guess we don't all agree that the killing of children and civilians needs to end immediately. Thanks for your support to date Dave

Alpheus Williams

Thank you. Yes take Hamas to task but free Palestine from Zionist genocide.

Nemo Halperin

If the internet, video and social media had existed in the 1800s in America - this is basically what we would have seen. We would have seen the mainstream media bombarding us with messaging to convince us that the native American tribes are terrorists and that it's racist against the whites to oppose the European settlers colonising the land. If you can't understand that this is the root of the whole thing, and that yes, colonialism is bad, you maybe should swap places with someone in Gaza to experience some empathy.

jonesmike53 .

Lighten up, Dave. It’s extracting the urine not producing a PhD.

jonesmike53 .

Did anyone notice Dicky Marles just slipped Australian troops under Hamas’ Persian rug ? Please No ! Not another farrago following the US into a foreign war !

Ian Ossher

Giordano, unfortunately what you present here is overly simplistic. Whilst no one wants the murder of any innocent, there is much more going on than this. As one of your supporters said "why doesn't Hamas simply surrender". It's not a bad point but terrorists don't surrender. Terrorists have no one's interest at heart other than their own, in this case jihadist, agenda and it makes no difference to them whethere they murder Jews or Gazans. Over 450 rockets (mis)fired by Hamas have landed on their own people, yet they don't care. Israel also have not occupied Gaza since 2007 when Hamas took over the rule of Gaza and have run it ever since under martial law. I don't want to get into the history of the area, which is complex and often not understood or known, I'm simply referring to a terrorist organisation attacking a people (Jews) because it is part of the their Charter that these people and the country within which they live, must be wiped off the face of the earth.

DaveM

There is a popular narrative that both sides are equally evil. That narrative is incorrect, and yet this audio appears to support that narrative. That's what my objection boils down to.

thejuicemedia

I'm sorry Dave, but where does the audio say they are "equally evil"? I think you are conflating what I'm saying, with what you've heard others say. I said: what Hamas did on Oct 7 is fucked and illegal (doesn't need a reference); what Israel is doing now is fucked and illegal (look up collective punishment, use of white phosphorous, cutting off water and electricty on civilians etc); and that what they are both doing is happening in the context of an occupation which is illegal (https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2022/10/commission-inquiry-finds-israeli-occupation-unlawful-under-international-law). The episode asks people to hold three truths in their brain simultaenously. Please let me know if you spot an error in which case I'll correct it before publishing

thejuicemedia

Thank you for the feedback Ian. I have intentionally tried to keep it simple because - as you say - the history is complex. But just because something is simple, doesn't necessarily make it wrong or simplistic. If you can point out any errors or inaccuracies, however, please let me know as I will correct them before we publish.

Nemo Halperin

In the interests of adding to your knowledge about the Hamas atrocities in Israel on 7th Oct you should read 2 articles. Will paste them below if this chat application allows me to...

Nemo Halperin

I think you know already that if I knocked on your door with some soldiers backing me up and we chucked out your things and took over your house and the houses of all your neighbours - you might be more than a little pissed off. I advise you to properly contextualise your analysis of the situation.

DrWex

Hoo boy. I... have to wonder why you want to stick your head in this lion's jaws. Your other ads have drawn attention to things that are not well-covered, and promoted causes of people who don't have access to powerful media. I think of the recent Canada ad in particular. This does neither. In response to other comments you asked about inaccuracies. First, talking about the world cheering on is inaccurate. Everywhere from the UN to the Biden administration we see important figures calling for restraint or a cease fire. Second, where you talk about the context of Hamas's attacks you (accurately in my view) refer to an occupation, but Gaza is not occupied territory. Hamas has indeed claimed that its attacks are in reprisal for violence Israel carried out in the West Bank and if you want to support that claim, be clear about it. Doing so without seeming to justify the terrorism is going to be a stretch, particularly as dead terrorists have been found to be carrying documents that show this invasion was literal years in the planning. There's "simplify" and there's "obscuring the truth by leaving out important context" and I think you're falling far too much into the latter. I think the point is not factual inaccuracy. It's that "this isn't helping and it's wildly ill-timed." You're free to speak your minds, of course, and to make whatever media you want about whatever topics you think need covering. But I don't think this does anything valuable and is just going to piss people off.

thejuicemedia

Thank you for this thoughtful feedback DrWex. This is really helpful and i'm taking it on board: Re: "occupation" - the visual will indeed show that this is referring to the West Bank. (However, the term "occupied territories" technically refers to both the West Bank, East Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip: https://www.state.gov/reports/2016-report-on-international-religious-freedom/israel-and-the-occupied-territories/israel-and-the-occupied-territories-the-occupied-territories) Re: "the world cheering on" - I was referring to people generally taking sides and cheering them on, but I see how it could be interpreted differently - as you have. I don't think it's accurate to say Biden has called for a ceasefire, but you're right to say many people have called for restraint. One can dispute whether this is genuine, but I agree saying "cheering on" is problematic. So I'll cut the line; or change it to something else - maybe "while the world watches on" As for the question of the merits of this ad: I love drawing attention to issues that are not getting enough coverage, and I'll continue to do that (in fact I was working on such an HGA when this war broke out). But I think its also important to speak up about events like these. As i said in the main post, I am sickened by the loss of life, especially children, and not saying anything about it feels even more sickening

Coco

Except for the clunky 'enshittenment' which I would change, the piece is quite balanced and expresses the almost 100 year Nakba/Zionist colonization/occupation context fairly --- unlike the major western politicians and legacy media who are a deaf/dumb/ and blind cheering gallery for Israel's mass murder of Gaza & West Bank Palestinians. You might find interesting the views of an orthodox rabbi speaking in Montreal yesterday --- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8queaGlpm8A

Bryan A.

Without condoning the Hamas attack or "9/11" both events are understandable. Abuse people enough and they will respond as they see fit...

Dan Stefanich

The experts seem to have weighed in on this. As a non-expert and someone not affiliated with either side in this conflict, I can simply applaud any effort to help us remember that killing children and other civilians is seriously fucked. Carry on with the good fight, Giordano!

Noam Gressel

Giordano, Welcome to the Middle East. You've indeed stumbled into one of the most painful minefields you could choose to spend time in. Good luck with that. As a resident of this troubled neighborhood, who's been directly affected by the current violent cycle I'd say the following: 1. While we could easily debate the weight you attribute to various sides to this conflict and to each and every aspect of it (history, land rights, legality, humanity, etc.) - what's the point? None of that will bring an end to the violence. Unfortunately, nor will "an immediate ceasefire" do the job, though I solute the intent of your call. It will only set us up for another cycle sooner rather than later. Would recommend imagining a grander vision for the region, if you can. 2. Simplistic? Sure the views you present are simplistic. How could they not be? For example, have you never mentioned Iran, not even a neighbor of Israel's neighbors, and yet heavily involved in militarising the conflict. Could there be other underlying causes beyond occupation that are at the root of this conflict (religious, cultural, political, historic, to name just a few)? Of course there are and I'll be happy to debate their significance with you over a good beer. But overall, you're navigating the minefield reasonably well. In summary, unlike Greta Thunberg's latest displays of care for some in the region, your views seem to be better informed. Enough to serve as a basis for discussion, debate and hopefully - progress. That to me provides your efforts legitimacy, even if I don't agree with some of the views you hold and even if the medium is by definition "simplistic". But be warned: last time Australians ventured into this region, post WW2, you found yourselves most welcome by some of the region's residents, and yet, that didn't do much towards prolonging the British Mandate or peace in the region. So welcome back and good luck :-)

thejuicemedia

Noam, thank you for taking the time to write here - and for the welcome back. 1. as i said in the original post, the idea of not saying anything is deeply distressing. The point is: children are being massacred under these bombs; stopping the bombs is the priority; and public pressure on governments is the best way of doing that. I don't have a grander vision; but any vision that doesn't start with stopping killing children right now isn't grand at all. 2. There are lots of things I haven't mentioned. The US militarising the conflict is another one you could add. Trying to mention everything wasn't my aim in this video, and if I had done so I am sure people would find even more to disagree with. That is why I tried instead to keep it simple and truthful. If that comes across as simplistic, i'll just have to cop that fair criticism :) But please let me know if you see any factual errors, in which case I will address them before we publish. Please stay safe, and I look forward to that beer someday!

Mark D Larsen

Unlike so many whose feathers have been ruffled, I think it's an honest ad that calls a spade and shovel… and boy, do some commenters shovel it on thick. What kills me is that, after 4,000 years, such conflicts still stem from the argument over who received the divine "birthright" to that land: Jacob or Esau. Give it UP, earthlings. Isn't it time we abandoned the fairy tales and recognized that we are all Homo sapiens on a planet that we must share?

Robert Bismuth

It takes enormous courage to stand up and say anything about the middle east and we all know that theJuicemedia is courageous. Have you simplified things? Yes. Overly? Not sure I’m a good judge of that as I do not live in that region or practice any of the three major religions or any of politics of that region – and the conflict there has been going on for thousands of years if I am remembering history correctly. I personally can’t see the strategy behind what happened or is going on. What is the end game? Who would benefit from the killing of people, the outrageous and barbarous killing of children and other innocents (no matter what their nationality, ethnic background, belief systems, etc.)? Who benefits from keeping a war alive? (Wars – particularly nationalistic ones on either or both sides – are great ways to stay in power or make other social/legal/political/religious changes while people are so riled up that they are only looking to one path forward.) As others have said, you stuck your foot into this one and I’m sort of glad you did take the risk. You raise a fundamental point: each side feels justified to kill, can’t see/understand/remember the other side’s justification and each does so in its own way with significant collateral damage. In the end, what is it over? Revenge? Righting a wrong? (Not sure how you right a wrong with another wrong.) A way of life? Hectares of desert nobody else would want? Control? A sense of ephemeral justice? A religion? Personal “wealth”? The bigger international political scene? A distractive move? (This middle east situation has caused the Ukraine situation to slip from top headlines and even pushed Trump, the wannabe presidential felon, below the fold, while also pushing the inept GOP in the US into really appearing as the fragmented has-been yet extremely dangerous wounded animal that it is as it clings to past successes, etc.) Perhaps to push China’s claims on the South China sea, or its interest Taiwan so far below the fold that it can now increase its aggressive stance with countries such as the Philippines? Or, being extremely cynical for a moment, how about simple capitalism: Increasing the wealth of the world’s military industrial complexes? And that’s not even close to a full list of those who could or do benefit from this conflict (or any similar conflict). Have we really made no progress as a civilization that we must repeat the processes of the past without learning from them? Why do we sustain people in power who obviously should be the last people given such power (and pick your country – my question is not limited to the middle east)? Or allow the systems that sustain such incompetents to be themselves sustained? That’s the real, to use one of your words, shitfuckery causing the slide into the shit for the rest of us. So, please continue to point out the shitfuckery – and that will often take real courage in addition to conviction. People cannot change what they cannot see …

Justin T. Thurn

Hey, Giordano, I still fuckin' love you, man. It's clear from years of your work that you're a sensitive, thoughtful, caring person with a doggedness to always do your best. It's clear from this audio that you felt something calling you to use what's at your disposal to once again address human suffering and the callousness that allows it to continue through space and time. No doubt you anticipated certain criticisms. That you're feeling whatever you do wont' be enough, as every peace-wager is experiencing right now, and as some here have suggested. I know a church that always flies a banner reading, "we pray for peace for all", which was uncontroversial until the 7th of October. Now they receive threats because that banner means they support one team or another, or don't understand the subtleties, or are overflowing with hate. This episode is your peace banner. It's not simplistic. It poses a simple question through the medium available to you: "what would happen if the world stopped killing people?" Maybe you don't need anyone to tell you this, but you're not alone. You're a beautiful human being, and I'm glad you exist. Be good to yourself. Remember that foibles are allowed. May peace embraces you and yours around every corner, and may you find the grace-filled strength to embrace it in return.

Nimbus Minx

Gee, that was kinda like how playground bullying worked when I was a child. And the kid being bullied got punished when he finally threw a punch back because, until then, it wasn't a fight, so, technically, he started the fight.

Nimbus Minx

Yeah, and the USA was an accessory after the fact by knowingly harboring Nazis. And so now, as far as the US government is concerned, Israel can do no wrong. I always find it annoying that everyone talks about the 6 million jewish people killed, but they almost never mention the 5 to 11 million other people--the sinti and roma gypsies, the homosexuals, the communists, the slavic people, the mentally non-conforming, etc.

Graham Elliott

I think you've done a great job with an extremely emotive subject.

Eric Epstein

Well done. And bravo for taking on such a sensitive topic.

Noam Gressel

A grander vision could be securing children's future for generations to come. The only option I'm aware of for that is by civil society taking over control from the traditional political and military powers. As unlikely as it may sound, this is what is being proposed be the likes of XR to resolve the climate crisis: creating a Citizens’ Assembly on Climate and Ecological Justice where "only the common sense of ordinary people will help navigate the challenging decisions ahead". Versions of such approaches have been implemented in other conflicts and in my opinion, could channel our collective frustrations towards a more realistic sustainable resolution than what you are proposing. The only factual error I can point to is the lack of mention of the negative role the interests of regional and global powers play throughout our region. Either way - I appreciate your efforts to create a meaningful statement on this painful matter.

Jason Orcamoon

This is a minefield. When I was a day from being activated to go to Gulf War One (1991) when the war was knocked off, our unit had made peace with the fact that we were going to Kuwait to make the world safe for Exxon. While I applaud calling attention to the heinous killing of children, I believe there is an opening here to talk more broadly about how this is entwined with the destruction of our environment and the way the sale of oil has financed war, terrorism and the killing of children. Back during our debates about making the world safe for Exxon many of us concluded that allowing oil to stay above $150 barrel would have allowed solar, wind, etc, power to have killed the need for oil. Instead the House of Bush and the House of Saud have financed more pain and suffering than I could ever have imagined.

thejuicemedia

Thank you Noam, I appreciate your feedback and I'm giving it thought.

thejuicemedia

Aww Justin, thank you for this beautiful comment. Lucy and I just read it together over brekky, and i think this is what's going to fuel me today as i finish editing the video, way more than these weetbeex. Truly, thank you G

Fenrir Wolfganger

I've been a supporter of this channel for some time and found some of this just too simplistic but let's be blunt - there's just too many hands in this mess to keep it simple. 1) OK. Loved start and finish. "Enshittenment" is a clunky term but fits the channel as well as "where will humanity shit next" (Spoiler, everywhere already, just not been reported). 2) "Humanity cheers on", people on both sides ARE cheering. But people involved on both sides also want restraint. "Cheers" is more accurate than "watches" but I'm not a writer. 3) So true that people need to learn to hold multiple truths in their head, it's part of our maturing from children to adults, but when things turn emotional it's not so easy. 4) I disagree with the simplification of wanting people to stop killing each other (along with civilians). That's not going to happen, there or elsewhere. But how do you simplify all the different factions following different agendas most of whom want groups fighting so they can get on with their own matters? You're trying to get people to think and hopefully learn more and that's part of why I support this channel. Take care and look forward to the final version, I'm sure I'll grit my teeth at some point but... That's a me problem, I'm struggling to hold multiple truths in my head here too.

John Arundell

Well done. Of course you cannot mention all the enshitters, including Iran and USA and let's not forget the master imperial enshitters, the English. This is another fine mess they bequeathed. Trying to cover all the angles would prevent any civilized person from commenting. I think you have masterfully made your point. I hope, but do not expect, that your words will have a positive impact on at least one person who can make a difference.

Ian Ossher

Giordano, you do refer to occupation. To be clear, a territory is considered occupied under international law when it is actually placed under the authority of a hostile army. Israel left Gaza in 2007 when Hamas became the military rule of Hamas (as previously stated). Israel's army has not occupied Gaza since then.

thejuicemedia

Thank you Fenrir really appreciate this feedback. All the feedback, positivbe and critical, is helping me make important refinements to the video before we publish. Super grateful to all the Patrons here who are taking the time to let me know their thoughts - i'm blessed to have such a great group of people supporting our work!

Justin T. Thurn

My pleasure, friends. Y'all are some of the handful of internet folk I have an actual desire to hang out with. Maybe one day we can toast and fortify each other over bowls of mysterious Australian cereals. Until then, as the first sentence our eldest son read out loud said, "don't let the fuckers get you down".

Bunga

Dont forget to mention religion also is a major cause of historical and recent wars. Religion is the 2nd biggest killer of humans in history.

Bunga

Why cant all religions cough up their trillions they have in ching ching and save this planet? Pope Francis wrote his little paper Laudato Si telling governments to fix the mess. Why cant he put his hand in his endless supply of cash to lead by example? Maybe one day you could do a HGA on shaming all religions to practice what they preach?

Jay Wilson

... maybe instead of 'enshittenment' try 'Scat'opocene? (ya know, like Anthropocene) Tip of the hat for reducing this geo-political shitshow into a message that should resonate with anyone who has a heartbeat.

brian hopper

Rushing in where angels...etc. The 'attack all criticism' unit has the Mayor of Wollongong in the cross hairs because he dared speak on behalf of the Palestinians. Batten down the hatches Giordano...triple check your cyber security. Respect to you and the team.

David Bishton

A bold foray into shitty waters indeed! The propaganda angle is a good one because it’s everywhere. A lot of people need to zip the mouth and open their ears in this perilous time. Then they might hear the children crying and do something.

Stuart Carroll

Welcome to the new democracy, We don't believe in free speech.

Stuart Carroll

They have no argument so try to silence you.

Ambiguous64

Fun fact - USA and the UK blocked the ceasefire in the UN. Now the US is moving 4 Carriers into the area and a mass of military. What happens next is anyone's guess. This isn't 1991, and Iran is more than capable of sending all 4 carriers to the bottom if they come anywhere near their mainland. The ASM cruise missiles now out-range the aircraft on the carriers, and the hypersonic speeds and evasive maneuvers can easily defeat the CIWS. But what happens if one or more go down? The USS Gerald Ford has 2600 onboard for example. That's just one way this could become a much larger conflict. Let's hope things calm down, but that doesn't look like it will happen any time soon.