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Early update for October 22, 2025 (Patreon)

Published:
2025-10-21 03:55:00
Imported:
2026-06

Content

vacuum it up!!!

Files

Comments

GundamBradley

I've really come to love this budding friendship.

William Lewis

It's a hard thing when they're both right.

Syl

the joesarah rebound train is real

Megh

some might say it's like 36 months

C

Respect on Sarah for standing up for Joe, even when he might not feel like standing up for himself entirely. *Still like Joyce/Dorothy, but this definitely needs some resolution one way or another before we move forward*

Sajuuk-Khar

Sarah: Look bro YOU are the one playing the sad dog music from Futurama as an ambient BGM

Empress of Robots

That's not even a Baker's Dozen of Days' Old Relationship! SEE?!?! NO CONSEQUENCES! Except like maybe Joe X Sarah?!

Lazuli

what happens now

ArdieBea

Yay, Sarah! You're my voice, here! And it's great to see that Joe's still holding onto his own value. Though the emphasis on the 'I' in that last panel makes me wonder if he's thinking Joyce hasn't.

Empress of Robots

I honestly can't tell if Joe X Sarah is a crackship cooked up by my brain that only works in shitposts, something that is actually there and possibly good(?), or like my Joyce and Dorothy-protecting brain trying to make sure there is no bad things that happen from them getting together for their sake. All of the above?

Smoochie

In high school to college freshmen time, you’d be right. We used to treat people dating a few months as though they were ready to be married

Mark Thompson

Good for you Joe. Don’t forget the better person Joyce saw in you and you still are. She made you wanna be better, so be that way for yourself

HenryVolt

It's true Joe and Joyce didn't really last as long as it felt. But Joe still felt more for her than any other woman's he's been with. There was something special about their relationship.

Logibear

Yesssssssssss. Joe!!! Go and find yourself someone who actually values you for who you are and what you can give to them.

I Know Why the Mowed Lawn Screams

ALSO ALSO ALSO !!! Very excited for what this scene will mean for Sarah's wider character arc, her personal journey really has been one of the lesser talked about highlights of this comic I feel

Logibear

In fairness, she was literally saying "Poor Joe" unprompted without anyone else around before.

NinjaZaku

Gods, that "twelve days" really slapped me in the face with the reminder of the difference between comic time and real time. That hurt a bit lol. As an aside, I said this on a post a while back but I'll say it again. I *LOVE* the growth Sarah's gone through over the course of this comic.

Logibear

100% and based on current evidence. Is he wrong?

Harold

The character growth for both of them is simply *amazing*.

5099 5618 v2.0

@Lazuli Life goes on, and/or finds a way.

Astariel

Damn, go Joe! Love his determination in the last panel. I hope he's being honest there.

Logibear

"Now here's the twist, and there is a twist. We show it. We show all of it"

Dan Rabin

If you put this strip next to the previous one, and leave aside the Joyce/Dorothy sex panel, the strips make one continuous scene . Sarah's head starts upright and tilts to the right as she engages more closely with Joe's state of mind, and Joe turns away from her gaze to express his regret and then confirm Sarah's statement from offscreen of his worth as judged by Joyce. I note the forefinger gesture from Joe because I've appointed myself Noter of Forefinger Gestures. And, yay, they're bonding! (mixed-message callback: https://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-3/02-guess-whos-coming-to-galassos/hug-2/)

5099 5618 v2.0

That's not how martyring yourself works, Joe. It's closer to how roulette works, from what I can tell.

MrShoggoth

I don’t want Sarah and Joe to get together, it’s my least favourite trope in fiction to pair up two people like them romantically. Them growing a platonic friendship that’s mutually supportive despite their early history is fantastic to see unfold and I want it to continue.

Kelly (they-them)

This is a good strip! I like it! *smashes mug against table* Another!

Mariah

good reminder for the paladins who act like joe and joyce have been married for 84 years.

5099 5618 v2.0

@HenryVolt It's freshman year, tho. Whole lives get lived in individual weeks, from what I remember. Not *every* week, mind you, but every once in a while you wake up and feel like what you just went through took several years to play out. And then there's a time skip, of course.

tifani

Ok I’m starting to pick up what you Joe/Sarah shippers have been putting down.

tifani

But Tony JUST got here

tifani

So these two can be unexpected friends and Joe/Sarah can happen in like 6 years real world time…one month comic time?

5099 5618 v2.0

For one, you didn't "deserve" this. This isn't a "deserve" situation. You did your best to do right as you saw it at the edge of an event horizon. You haven't been pulled in, yet, but that doesn't mean your calculations were off [1]. [1] - although it doesn't look like you factored moral relativity into them...

Logibear

Sarah Sandwich between two big hunks of bread?

tifani

Also Joe wtf do you mean you didn’t have a first date? You don’t recall the gazebo? JOYCE GAVE HER LESBIAN VIRGINITY TO YOU!

William Lewis

"Oh, yeah, they say life goes on Long after the thrill of livin' is gone"?

DiDi-chan

Ugh, bullshit, bullshit. Joe's not being fair to himself. God, he's falling down into a spiral. Please Sarah, lift him out. It's not cowardice, damn it. If anything, it was caution. And he probably should have been more cautious because look where he is. *Dorothy* is the one who should really be paying for her cowardice. She lived in blatant denial over Joyce until she saw her being happy with someone else. But unfortunately, this isn't like one of my books and guess who gets to be fucking rewarded? Though actually, I guess that's like my *other* books.

tifani

SHE WORE HER SEXIEST SWEATER VEST! How dare you. I ship dojo solo now.

Ben Paddon

I'm amazed you had the time to get it printed onto a mug.

tifani

….freeing you up for Tony/Sarah…..

The Deliberate Myth

It may not be the triad people wanted, but could JoSaTo be the triad we deserve?

tifani

They’d definitely be the most no nonsense one possible.

Kazo

Poor Joe. He was worried about becoming his father and he became his mother instead.

Kelly (they-them)

No, he said they *barely* had their first date. As in, it had just happened. I think it Friday night in comic and it's currently Sunday evening in comic.

5099 5618 v2.0

@William Lewis ~dum da da-da da-DUM (/CLAP) dum da da-da da-DUM (/CLAP)~

tifani

And Sarah would get toned af. Hot! You know what…nudges Joe in the direction of Tony/Sarah.

tifani

Look there was dinner a movie and penetration. How is that barely a date?

ArdieBea

I think that until Joyce comes back to him (as promised) the jury's out. I'd say she definitely sees and values him for who he has become - and Sarah honours that - but it will never be as intense as what she feels for Dorothy.

tifani

But if it was 48 hours ago that is fucking hilarious. Joyce you hussy!

Railway Series Book Club

i feel like this whole angle of the storyline is starting to lose me, Joe seems too therapized about all of this and i'm not big on how Sarah's role in all this so far has shaken out to be "gassing up Joe and his Character Arc". like, Joe's nice and all but I feel like this framing is what leads to screaming masses of Joe stans failing their media literacy checks whenever the camera cuts to Joyce and Dorothy being happy to be in love. he's functionally a perfect victim in this scenario, and it makes him read more as a misplaced character from Smarting of Age when he really feels like he should be coming across as what he is; a dipshit who's over-corrected for his previous selfishness by becoming almost obnoxiously selfless and martyring his own happiness. its like the one time to me this story has read to me as more about His Pain than Their Love, and that bothers me a lot because I don't care that much for the Generic Man Pain angle.

dorothy keener's left doinker

in a comic where every character is their own brand of Kinda Selfish, it’s annoying for One Guy’s main issue to be a martyr complex, which all the other characters (and consequently, the readers) seem to buy into instead of recognizing it as uh kind of pathetic. i mean um im doinker lol lesbians am i right

tifani

People wanna act like she and Dorothy are newlyweds and their thing isn’t even 24 hours old apparently.

darklion

Joe is the living embodiment of the Moai statue emoticon rn

tifani

You’re right this has to happen. But I can’t go through another cheating plot. Tony has to die I guess.

tifani

(Seriously though Willis next time you wanna do an infidelity story just kill one of the people instead. Less drama. It’s how we got Asher/Ethan…and not Danny/Ethan. Ok so you know what DON’T kill Tony.)

tifani

FOR THE LAST TIME WE CAN’T KILL TONY

Jesse

When I saw the caption in an email update, I thought it was going to be a sex joke.

Amós Batista

Sarah really changed a lot. Like, A LOT. Proud of her.

Mariah

to be fair willis did describe the kiss scene as a wedding. Though thats more metaphorical than literal.

ArdieBea

One day Joyce will look at some other young woman and think, 'You only have him now, because I had him then' and feel weirdly proud.

tifani

Joe could walk across the hall with Sarah and she could unlock the door and Joyce’s promise that they’ll talk later is kept. Meanwhile Sarah is annoyed her room now fully smells like pussy.

ArdieBea

Agreed, they make great friends. The possibility of romantic entanglements remains, however, as Willis has cleverly had Joe say 3-4 times over the years that he finds Sarah VERY attractive.

Logibear

While that might be true for us. Think about being in his position where he put himself out there, kinda got brushed off with a promise, and now he's in this weird limbo where they didn't break up but she's definitely boning down with someone who he feels is more compatible with her. I'd feel justified in feeling let down here.

SmartAlec105

“I had months”. Joe, you were still 12 days faster than Dorothy so that should count for something.

tifani

Don’t mean to be a dick when I say this but I genuinely do not care. The “it’s a wedding” thing is sweet from a creator perspective like just as a thing Willis saw but the way the shippers took it and ran with it and wanna act like these two teenagers who just decided to take a walk on the queer side 5 minutes ago are the loves of each others lives to the point where all oxygen must be sucked out of the room to only focus on them them THEM has me just completely uncharmed at this point.

ArdieBea

And honestly, that slipshine had a bunch of marriage stuff in it (see analysis in post below). Plus Joyce calling Dorothy her wife. Yep, it's fast, but i think it's definitely part of Willis' design.

darklion

oh let the man be a martyr in peace

Logibear

Sarah Stocks are low yield in the short term but if you hold onto them they'll pay dividends.

ArdieBea

@ Tifani. Lol, we posted at the same time. I get it; I'm a sweetness freak and love it, but if it's making your teeth ache then definitely take a break!

taekwondogirl

Uhh that one guy's main issue was a whole different thing previously. He's already had significant growth, he's not going to manage to fix everything in one go.

SmartAlec105

I don’t think he’s really appreciating his own value. I think the poly proposal was him trying to desperately hold on to the tiniest crumb of his relationship with Joyce and he still felt guilty for even asking.

taekwondogirl

I think that's an unfair interpretation. Joe isn't being fully honest, both with himself and to Sarah. I bet a very large part of this is he still doesn't trust himself to be the right person for Joyce. That's why there's that closeup on his face when he says he isn't throwing it away.

Logibear

My take on the last couple of panels here, is that he may have realised that it wasn't what he wanted at all and he's kinda frustrated about it all now.

ArdieBea

Oh, yeah! all the feels! This is not going to be easy for Joe, and could potentially be horrible. We're just going to have to wait to see how the cookie crumbles...

Logibear

"My brother in christ, you slingshot her ahead of you"

tifani

Hey I get that it’s intentional like symbolism but that’s all it is. They’re not actually married. My problem is with the people who took the subtext and would not let it the fuck go. I think for a lot of people it gave them an excuse to just fully ignore the messy parts of Dorothy and Joyce’s behavior because in a world where these two actually got married that actually means something. And when I say this I mean she and Dorothy get actually legally married fuck yeah you have to take this relationship more seriously than a week and a half with Joe. But THEY ARE NOT ACTUALLY MARRIED. So that means Joe and Joyce are on the exact same level as Dorothy/Joyce. Stop measuring love and accountability and shit in a tiny little scale about it.

5099 5618 v2.0

@Logibear Erm... There are a few relevant details, here...

ArdieBea

I think to an extent it's a function of the way time works in Dumbing of Age - because for most of us the Joe/Joyce relationship really does feel like it's been going for at least three years. And Dorothy just poked her head above Joyce's waterline as an actual romantic interest earlier this year.

5099 5618 v2.0

@Olivia Cheatham "Stop! Stop! He's already dead!"

Mariah

"I have been operating under one rule in the past few years and that there is no one in the world that joyce loves more than dorothy" Joyce/Dorothy is being given a lot of narrative weight for fairly complex reasons and you can be annoyed by that but its not something that is simply in shippers heads.

5099 5618 v2.0

@Tifani Damn. That would be one hell of a power move [1], if it went that way. Not sure the funk factor can be avoided, at this point, yeah. [1] - Potentially also a declaration of open war, mind you.

Tessea

Daaaamn, comic-time is weird. I thought they were together a lot longer. I am extremely pro-Joyce & Dorothy, and I've never been the biggest fan of Joe. But being with Joyce really did seem to bring out what Joe _could_ be and I'm happy that he sees that and doesn't seem interested in reverting to his less mature outlook on life. But I also really hope Joyce gets her mind unclouded enough to remember to go over things with Dorothy about him and go talk to Joe before Sunday is over. Dorothy deserves the truth, and Joe deserves an answer. Neither can be put off any more if any of these relationships is going to have a solid foundation. As much as she'd probably hate it, Joyce is the lynchpin to all of this, and she has responsibilities to everyone involved. Even Sara and Becky/Dina deserve some real sit down and talk time with Joyce and/or Dorothy. Hell, even _Amber_ seems to think the fallout from all of this is her fault, and she REALLY doesn't need the stress right now.

ArdieBea

Nice to o know that the first thing Joe's going to get when he moves into an apartment with someone is... a cat. He absolutely strikes me as a cat person.

Elizabeth

He always understood consent pretty strongly, and getting along with cats is all about consent

Anna K

Is "One Guy" Dorothy? Because you seem to be describing Dorothy.

5099 5618 v2.0

@Tifani Proposed ship name: Personal Record

Logibear

What do you mean? She only went against a tide of protesters running away to stand with a sign in full view of a police sniper before immediately thinking that Amazi Girl only got injured because of her and Joyce. What's Martyrie about that? /s

Anna K

It's not Generic Man Pain, though; it's Specific Pain of someone who got cheated on. Willis has said that they didn't previously do infidelity strips because it was a sore spot for their wife. Now that they've changed that, I think acknowledging the pain that infidelity causes is an important part of telling that sort of story. And I'm fed up of fans claiming we should focus only on Their Love and Coming Out & dismiss the hurtful consequences of their actions: I feel like it feeds into a narrative of "bisexuals always cheat on their partners" or even "bisexuality is an excuse for cheating", neither of which is true.

tifani

Kept thinking on how annoyed I am by the way the kiss was a wedding thing got picked up and ran with I wrote something. I call it the “fuck Joe principle”

tifani

The “Fuck Joe” Principle (Summary Report) The Fuck Joe Principle designates an audience purification response following narrative transition. When a text reorients from a heteronormative to a queer-coded framework, the prior partner (Joe) is reclassified as symbolic contamination to preserve moral coherence. In the Dorothy/Joyce case, the metaphorical “wedding” was interpreted as literal canon, allowing relational infidelity to be reframed as authentic self-actualization. The response functions as collective anxiety regulation through narrative sanitation, producing the illusion of ideological progress via exclusion of the prior framework. Advisory: Individuals exhibiting cognitive dissonance, moral confusion, or narrative fatigue following exposure to the Fuck Joe Principle may qualify for compensation through the Department of Narrative Hygiene. Clinical evaluation recommended.

tifani

Cats are great. Him being a cat person makes him even better.

ArdieBea

Also, though, 'had significant growth'? Not yet for Dorothy, beyond accepting that she's bi and acting on it. She came into college as the equivalent of two caffeinated PTA moms and has been on the downward spiral since the beginning. I think that trajectory is now officially exhausted, and I hope that, with the backing of her wife, she'll actually start doing some growing from here on out. I'm looking forward to the arc of the organised anarchist.

ArdieBea

There's no way that room hasn't smelled of pussy on many an occasion. Other Jacob canonically gets frequent use, and Joyce's solo act has also reportedly been in regular rehearsal.

Julian Williams

It's not "Generic man pain", Joe is rightfully upset and hurt and is just saying what he thinks he needs to say to get over it because he's messed up from infidelity. Rather than being selfish, he's being selfless and pushing down his hurt feelings. That's the final panel -- she says "Don't you dare think you're not worth it" and he's visibly shake as he goes, "I definitely don't think that."

Mariah

Joyce and Dorothy being a meaningful exploration of coming out and self discovery and Joyce cheating on joe was morally wrong are takes that can co exist.

ArdieBea

The alternative to the Fuck Joe principle, of course, is the 'Everyone's Fucked,' principle. We just gotta live with the fact that some of our favourite human beings are, like ourselves, inconsistent, sometimes thoughtless and inadvertently harmful, and good fiction allows this reality to exist and take up space and... make us uncomfortable.

tifani

@mariah I agree. I wish more people did.

shiftdruid

that's our boy. love ya joe. good luck pal.

tifani

I’m not saying it’s not an important relationship and Joyce might genuinely love Dorothy the most but I also feel like Joyce also loves Joe even if she hasn’t said it and I don’t like how her relationship was him was just immediately treated as disposable the second these two became canon. He was treated like an intrusion and a glorified dildo and his feelings were disregarded and people who missed him were told to shut up and focus on Joyce and Dorothy only. Celebrate Joyce and Dorothy. Love Joyce and Dorothy and the hyper focus on them for like two months straight to the point where the comic went from this thing with all these other characters and stories to the Dojo show it really feels like this relationship was kind of shoved down our throats. I say this genuinely not disliking the ship (I like Joyce and Joe better but I was neutral on Joyce and Dorothy before they got together and then when it was obviously going to happen I was like oh okay I can see how this as a natural progression and then when the idea of polyamory came up I got really excited because that’s an interesting subversion you don’t really see representing on of and the most interesting imho the most interesting interaction Dorothy has had was the conversation with Joe where he made her admit her feelings. So the three of these characters together felt exciting to me. But her Dorothy and Joyce alone for two months it just feels like not cute to me. Just these two people so focused on each other to the exclusion of the feelings of anyone or anything else that it kind of felt like drowning to death in honey or something. And also not super healthy because they are making themselves live in this little love bubble when other people around them are in actual pain. And you can’t say it’s been two days because in reality it has been months and this was way too long to stay in this part of the story. It just was. And the reality is after all this I like this pairing less now. I don’t hate them. I accept the reality that this is the official main couple now but that doesn’t change the fact that it has just been way too much of only them for way too long. Seeing only Joe and Sarah’ today has been a welcome relief. But I don’t think Dorothy and Joyce can ever be what they could have been to me if this had happened in another way. Idfk. Sorry for the rant.

Rob McBobson

Far as I can see, there is no emphasis on the "I" in the last panel, though. It's not in boldface, like Sarah's "I" in the fourth panel is. It's written with serifs, but that's just how a lot of comics write the letter I when it's used as a pronoun.

tifani

Okay there’s no way Sarah jacking it has the same room filling aroma power as Joyce and Dorothy fucking all over the place like I assume (I don’t have slipshine)

tifani

But yes Sarah and Joe will recognize the smell immediately.

tifani

Reading this again I think this is Sarah convincing Joe to actually plead his case for polyamory instead of just stepping aside for Dorothy/Joyce in a “in respect for what they had throwing this relationship away like this after twelve days is not fair”. He’s going to actually fight for the poly option and this is how Dorothy finds out there is a poly option to be fought for. Sarah is clearly going to be advocating for him too. She’s studying to be a lawyer. The whole thing could have trial vibes. Keener v Rosenthal over custody of Joyce’s heart. (It ends in joint custody).

Annie

I think Sarah is talking to him because she might be worried he'll back slide into his old self. Perhaps she doesn't want him to lose sight of his growth.

Jasmijn Wellner

On the twelfth day of JoJoe my true love gave to me...

Johanne

Sarah doesn't know yet about that proposal though? Or about how this was encouraged by Joe. I agree she would support the idea of she knew, but I don't think we're there yet.

Rat

Gods joes so fucking based. No ones hates the what about joe people more than Joe. No one wants jakey to die if he must more than jakey. You people cant comprehend that he for real actually holds no jealousy in his heart and for real just wants whats best for his friend. Which, ironically, makes him a better Joe supporter than all the what about Joe people.

Smoochie

@Seth the heart wants what it wants. This has always been, this is what shall always be. Is the cheating great? No. Is the self-discovery of panging and friendship was truly more under the surface? Yes. See that? Two truths wrapped in the same situation.

Smoochie

*nervous laughter* Haha what do you mean that people at that age spend a lifetime of trying not to be one parent and accidentally overcorrect into becoming their other parent. *more nervous laughter*

Smoochie

@ArdieBea At which point Dina will dope slap her.

Edwin I Callahan

Original Sarah basically was a background character (Joyce’s grumpy roommate) in Roomies and the following strips and never got much storyline time. It’s nice to see her as a developed character in this webcomic.

Harold

@Johanne: No, Sarah doesn't know about Joyce's interrupted conversation with Joe, but I don't think Tifani's wording is implying that Sarah knows - I think she's indicating that the fact that Sarah is in his corner here just might boost Joe's confidence in himself so that he'll keep going after what he wants (a continued relationship with Joyce, but not at the expense of her exploring her happiness with Dorothy).

Harold

Also I like the concept of "Keener v Rosenthal." Dorothy, of course, would be representing herself. I'm picturing Walky, as a hostile witness, saying, "I don't know the Bible that well, but has anyone considered doin' that Solomon-baby thing with Joyce's heart? 'Cuz I'd kinda like to see that."

Harold

Upon Further Reflection, I *Do*, in Fact, Have Time for Buffoonery: A Dumbing of Age Pornographique

Harold

Megh is making a specific joke about the fact that each DoA storyline covers one day, and typically lasts three months of real-world time. But that joke speaks to the way Willis *does* play with time in the comic to funhouse-mirror the way time passes at that age, when it feels simultaneously like each day lasts a lifetime but also everything seems to be happening and changing all at once.

Beck Chonigman

I didn't know that I wanted a court case arguing FOR the case of Polyamoury TO 1 of the parties involved until now. But I REALLY want it!!!

Sajuuk-Khar

Queen I think you’re really cool and I like you as a commenter so I want to say this as gently as I can: dismissing Joe’s pain as “generic man pain” here is the exact same deal as dismissing Becky’s pain as “thinking she had dibs”. Which is to say it is dismal thinking. Please give the dude some grace. He’s doing the right thing, and like, what else do we want from him? He’s not going to play the villain or rip the mask off, there’s no mask. (I don’t love Sarah’s angle either, to be fair to you. I think it’s in-character and it’s well-intentioned but it does give the weirdos lots of ammo to work with, though What Can You Do, as an author)

Sajuuk-Khar

doinks this take really is not it. This is the mirror take of “god Becky shut up about your stupid girl pain you don’t have rights to Joyce.” That was bad, and this is bad.

Sajuuk-Khar

Joyce is, I have to say, a little being the kind of recklessly feelings-destructive that has ALWAYS been her brand like since the Walkyverse, DOA!Joyce is well-intentioned all the way but she has that IW! dogg in her, she can wrecking ball a bit when she wants something lmao

Sajuuk-Khar

Hot Take: Joe deserves a little of the same grace we gave Becky, y’all Like, there’s people who are gassing him up and textually dickriding him and God Almighty I refuse to look at the main site because I know it’ll be wall to fucking wall textual bleating about Joyce and Dorothy’s (secular!!! NONE of us on the main site are STUPID IDIOT THEISTS!!!!!) various Sins, all throughout the audience, and that sucks shit. Those people need to shut it. But like, at the same time, let the dude hurt how he’s gonna hurt. If he’s going to be in the fucking Torment Nexus it’s a little fucked up to sneer at him for letting a tear go down his cheek or not bawling like a baby. :/

Sajuuk-Khar

Honestly with how this is shaking out if I were Willis I would be like “fuck, man, I *SHOULD* have gone with Joe offering to step aside”

Railway Series Book Club

@Sajuuk-Khar: He's allowed to feel bad about things, my big problem with it is what I said at the top of my post: he's too therapized about all this! I think Doinks in the post above mine put it best (because of course she did, she's way more eloquent than i am, lol); it feels like both the characters and commentariat aren't properly recognizing that Joe's martyr complex isn't actually a good or healthy thing to be partaking in! Everybody just seems to view it Unambiguously Good and Healthy because he's Good Boyfriend Jakey who never does anything wrong! And it's driving me crazy because I really really want there to be a conversation in this strip that isn't just continuing to lionize him!

Sajuuk-Khar

I mean like, one: his martyr complex is new and an overcorrection from being the self-proclaimed Chad Sexly, Unemotional King of Fuck Mountain, so I think a lot of the “lionizing” is people recognizing that even if martyrdom isn’t good, it’s *leagues better* than what he was doing before!!! and two: he really isn’t engaging the martyrdom we’ve seen him engage in, at the moment, he’s just…processing shit. Like, again, what do we want from him? What would you have him do differently?? If we’re gonna call him pathetic can we wait till he behaves pathetically?

Railway Series Book Club

i want him to be doing something other than stand in his room doing nothing! like, the Becky comparison you've made in other places is a false equivalence to me because Becky's reaction to this information is actually interesting and moves lots of things in the story forward, and Joe's hasn't so far! it's frustrating! i want him to have a response to stimuli that isn't Going Jakey Mode!

Sajuuk-Khar

…Okay see like there I may have hit on a point of agreement with you because I also do not like the idea that Joe has just been literally sitting there waiting for Joyce to come back and have the talk, that doesn’t…feel right. You have a hella strong point in that Becky had agency that Joe isn’t having, she was moving around doing her own thing rather than just displaying inertia, which I think hits also at our mutual dissatisfaction with Sarah as his attempted mover. That is in fact feeling weird writing-wise to me. I don’t love the Seymour the Dog thing.

Jay

This thread is just proving Joyce really has a type lmao

Sajuuk-Khar

LMAO fuck she kind of, uh, really does she’s huge into hot neurotic Jews with martyrdom and repression complexes! they do stuff to her loins!

Railway Series Book Club

@Sajuuk-Khar: i mean... we don't have any proof that he HAS done anything other than sit there waiting, we last left him in this very room, staring longingly after Joyce! i'll forgive this sequence of strips if Sarah segues the conversation in the direction i've been hoping for here

Sajuuk-Khar

@Queen: no no no I’m agreeing with you, we don’t have that proof and THAT is super frustrating, I feel you there. I was trying to say yeah, that I get. I don’t like that and I also want it to stop.

Railway Series Book Club

@Jay: NO YOU'RE LITERALLY SO RIGHT!!! not to make it discourse-y again but. it sure is interesting that people will critique and call out Dorothy's martyr complex readily (i am dorothy keeners strongest soldier and i will always be the first to bully her for it lmao) but refuse to accept doing the same for Joe's display of the same traits... surely this is for normal reasons

Sajuuk-Khar

full disclosure though as discussed below: I *do* think the Seymour the Dog act has to stop, Joe, sitting in your room like Orcus on his throne *will* get stupid if you do it for more than three more real world days.

Sajuuk-Khar

@Queen: ah fuck also true. eating crow for unconscious sexism. They both deserve to be bullied when they get that way. BUT, OUTSIDE OF DISCOURSE MODE, now I want to see Joe and Dorothy talk about the situation like this: https://youtu.be/swvzItnFtCw?si=pUPsj41XVlJUdeW_ (I have always wanted them to have a big talk about the whole deal but them tripping over each other’s martyrdom into nearly/actually making out would be chef’s kiss)

5099 5618 v2.0

@S-K Sure, but he gets, at a bare minimum, *the time during their first night together* (which he very much knows *is happening as he speaks*) to feel how he's gonna feel about it. But a week from now? Sure, slap him upside the head and drag him off to the gym to work off some tension.

5099 5618 v2.0

@Sajuuk-Khar She does seem to be of the "all's fair in love and war" mentality, it's true. Also, she's really smug when she's getting what she wants, especially at the expense of people she doesn't like.

5099 5618 v2.0

@Tifani The bees have not lead you astray on that assumption, no [1]. [1] - And so, your powers grow! You will surely be able to Say Sooth. You must believe with more conviction that you can move within future time! It must be like breathing! Like being able to snap an HB pencil in half with your fingers! You must believe it's a perfectly natural thing for you to do. What's most important is to recognize it as such. You must believe that it's natural for you to do it!

Harold

@5099 5618: For Joyce Brown and Dorothy Keener, today will be remembered as a momentous day in their relationship and in their lives in general. For David Walkerton, today will be remembered as The Day of the Seventeen HA's

Harold

Very much enjoying the back-and-forth here, but just wanted to give a special shout-out to S-K's description of Old Joe as "Chad Sexly, Unemotional King of Fuck Mountain," which is one of the funniest things I've seen on this forum

ArdieBea

And a gross of nugs.

5099 5618 v2.0

@Harold I suspect he will also remember the 463 nuggs, and perhaps wonder if Joyce did also find a way to take the 37 unaccounted-for nuggets while he was distracted.

Tesset

My god y'all. I'm rereading since book 13, which is 12 in-comic days ago, aka the timeline that Joe gives for when their relationship started. And there's not a single moment in the Joe/Joyce relationship that Dorothy hasn't been intimately involved in. Either in the form of setting things up (Dorothy recommended & booked the life drawing class), advice before/after something happens (both for Joyce *and* Joe), or just physically being present during dates (I just got to Joe & Joyce exercising the morning after their first kiss, and suddenly there's Dorothy!) Like, even before Joyce & Dorothy realized their feelings for each other, Dorothy was a *part* of this relationship, this has been subtextually poly for literal years now lol. If Amber gets involved in this relationship (or even Amazi-Girl, who has *also* been really involved in several key moments), then that won't even be a surprise lol

Jayne Lindgren

The time lensing has been a massive problem this whole storyline. Everything happens in extremely short periods in-universe, that are stretched out for months for us. People have way to long to get worked up about each tiny snippet of action to try and predict what happens next, and plenty of people seem to be more interested in how each strip confirms/denies their agenda than just... reading the story. It's all kind of exhausting.

MrShoggoth

…is it too late (or too early) to start calling the tangled mess that is Joe and Joyce’s relationship JoJo’s Bizarre Adventure?

Mariah

yeah I got really annoyed when it was clear joyce was coming out to protect joclyn and somehow the main site framed it as "stealing her moment" like just ignoring the obvious just to fit the joyce bad agenda.

Sajuuk-Khar

@Jayne: I normally like the time lensing but omg you’re spot on, this storyline hasn’t benefited from it at all

Astariel

It did. It counts for the 12 days.

tifani

Damn I leave for a few hours and suddenly a lot of people decide to get really cool really fast and are talking about the Joe/Joyce/Dorothy plot like mature rational adults. What the fuck? I mean I love this energy but what the fuck happened?

tifani

Oh wait Joe came back…yeah….

Maude Reads Things

Is it too late to welcome you to Team What the Fuck Am I with me? Not a paladin, not a sicko.

tifani

I’m team “let’s hurry the fuck up and get to the poly already so the next Joyce slipshine is a threesome” so uh team “the power of 3”? Let’s put the “try! In triangle!” Triad is rad? We can continue to workshop.

Doki

@Harold Holy shit that really would be the most Wally thing he could possibly say about this, I kinda love it.

Doki

@QueenOfSodor I think Dorothy and Joe's martyr complexes come from pretty different headspaces, though. Dorothy's is the rut she's been stuck in, as far as we can tell, her entire life. But it ALSO stems from something she wants(/thought she wanted) for herself. I don't think we've ever gotten any indication it was externally foisted on her in any way. (Unless we find out her parents aren't actually as open to letting their kid choose her own path as we have been led to believe? Which would be a really interesting storyline! I don't actually really think that's where this is going though haha.) Note that this is not me saying that it's healthy or that external forces have never affected her - I think a lot of us here know that overachiever burnout/life goal readjustment pain all too well - just that it differs from Joe's as outlined below. Meanwhile, Joe has rapidly overcorrected from his sex-fiend persona (which itself was a way to deal with his childhood cheating trauma). Like Sajuuk-Khar said, it's relatively new behavior for him and, in some ways, much healthier than his "LALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU TALKING ABOUT YOUR EMOTIONS BECAUSE DUDES DON'T HAVE FEELINGS" mindset before. That might be why people (both in comic and out) aren't taking him to task just yet. I'm actually not sure I'd describe what Joe is doing here as having a martyr complex in the first place, BTW, I'm just running with that phrasing so everyone's on the same page here! (Obligatory 'I am a queer femme' disclaimer, so hopefully no one takes the above as me centering a man's voice in a love story about women.)

5099 5618 v2.0

@Tifani Proposed group name: The Tri-Force

Logibear

That or we call the whole triangle Dojo Jojo

Dmitri0240

Becky responded to Joyce coming out by making it all about her and failing to give her the support that Joyce so freely gave her when she came out. But she deserves some grace because tried to make up for it a bit by throwing herself on the Hank grenade, because she's young, and because she's had a hard life. Joe doesn't need grace because he literally did nothing wrong (at least since days of "the list"). He could have acted a good deal more selfishly throughout this whole ordeal, and I'd still consider him blameless. My only issue with Joe is the people who seem to think that because he did nothing wrong, Joyce is obligated to stay with him. That includes a lot of commenters, and seemingly Sarah in-universe. Thankfully, Joe himself seems too wise to agree.

Harold

I'm pretty sure someone (I want to say QueenOfSodor, maybe?) has dibs on the polycule name "JoJo's Bizarre DorVenture"

5099 5618 v2.0

@Harold Or JoJoDo, yeah Jojo Dojo did make me laugh, tho.

5099 5618 v2.0

Maximum Fun [1]: Walky as Dorothy & Joyce's defense attorney. Bonus if he does it in full-Grisham mode ("Now, I'm no big-city lawyer...") [1] - Even more fun if he turns out to be good at it, and decides to get to go pre-Law

Sajuuk-Khar

I love how I posted this whole thing just to have a Joebro sit on it like a fly on a big pile of shit. I regret my words and deeds.

tifani

@logi when it’s an official triad we can and should absolutely call it dojo (can double for Dorothy/Joyce AND Dorothy/Joe) jojo covers (Joyce/Joe). It’s perfect! In fact I elect team dojo jojo to be the official team poly name!

Maude Reads Things

I respect that. May our teams form an alliance? I am so lonely. T.T

tifani

Sure