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IS JAX ABSTRACTING!?!?!P.s I am sorry for the tech issues during this recording. I worked out what was causing the lag and fixed it about halfway through.

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Ryan

I mean, Elijah did the voice for the shrimp, so the "Hello there!" can't NOT be an allusion to her*. It would have been hilarious if the entire rest of the episode was Jax tripping balls. For a while there I thought it would be. Obviously, the right answer is to press BOTH buttons at the same time. The design of Jax's room - and the fact that he didn't open the door all the way and potentially reveal it to the others - is reinforcing my theory that he's an egg. Two more episodes 'til we find out... *I made you look at IMDB, didn't I?

Osi

There's a theory that Jax ran over a child with his car. We see a few flashbacks of Jax's life when they're in the console room. What makes it even worse for him is that he's a plush bunny and has a pink room.

Jake DB

basically, what kinger implied there and what Caine was alluding to was that if he messed with their minds more than just temporary modifiers, then they abstract That's what causes abstraction, messing with their minds/memories. That's why Jax is teetering on the edge, cause as far as we know and have seen, he has messed with Jax's mind the most out of all of them so far

Taigan

So one thing I’m not sure if it’s a plot hole or has some deeper meaning: when Abel asks them how many administrator passes to get, Pomni says six. But at the time she didn’t know Abel wouldn’t be entering with them. So why didn’t she say seven?

Joey Visser

The Chinese symbol read Egg, or bird

Yoshinatorsaurus

The implication that Abstraction isn't caused by emotional stress and is instead caused by Caine fucking with peoples heads and being unable to put them back to normal is uh... super fucking dark.

jellybrigades

Is part of your theory that the game glitched? If the Digital Circus was created to be immersive therapy, I’d argue that it’s failed horribly. People have lost their minds trying to find an escape and been confined to a dark basement where their loved ones can’t visit them. If trapping them was always the intent of the Digital Circus, then they seem to have misunderstood therapy and accepting help being a choice.

Joey Quixote

"Scratch. The first Abstraction." This might be another biblical reference. "Old Scratch" is a nickname for The Devil... Caine has been depicted as God before... Something to be said about Caine casting down those who abstracted. If Scratch was an accident, but gave Caine the knowledge to abstract players at will... was Kaufmo getting too close to escaping, so Caine took him out? With the flashbacks, I'd thought maybe Jax was abducted, especially considering the decor of his room. But that he killed someone might make more sense. The Chinese Room isn't nonsense, btw. Someone on Twitter pointed it out. "The Chinese room argument holds that a computer executing a program cannot have a mind, understanding, or consciousness,[a] regardless of how intelligently or human-like the program may make the computer behave." I'm not sure how exactly that plays here, but it's definitely something. I'm still hung up on why Pomni hesitated. I think there's something there. I'm wondering if she knows more than we've been led to believe. But if Caine can mess with everyone's mind, we don't necessarily know what is or isn't real. It's all up in the air now.

Joey Quixote

Also, yes, 100% jumped at the "Hello there!". Got a good laugh knowing how you two would react.

OliverOnions

The Chinese room is an AI joke. It's about the Turing test.

Marceline_mother

Something I noticed just now, after Caine said that doing something more to their heads would not end well, is that what happened to Kinger? Caine did something more and he became like that? Because it cuts right to him

Marceline_mother

Because he was the one picking them. Abel was asking regarding to Kinger. Pomni thought it was implied that he was picking one for himself

Wee Lass Reacts

My theory was more that the game was never properly completed, shut down or didn't have the funds to continue and was left abandoned in a partially completed phase

Wee Lass Reacts

Yeah im getting that he hit someone with his car vibes too, a child would make sense

Martin E Melcher

This whole thing feels SO much like a retelling of "I Have No Mouth and Must Scream" like this whole thing ks just a simulation for mental torture. Finger definitely knows more. I think thats why Abel worked so well as the twist villain. He was able to confirm the smaller details and even talk to them about what they've been through. Also, I have a theory about what causes abstractions now. Its Cain messing with their minds. Those little tweaks, like the stupid sauce and vegan thing, he makes those tweaks without knowing how to fix it properly. It may be what breaks their minds even further to the point they cannot truly recognize themselves anymore. Like Steven Universe's Future where he became a monster because thats how he saw himself. Similar if not more permanent

Willow Arkan

yikes, double the runtime of the episode, haven't started yet, but i get the idea that there will be things to say

Willow Arkan

5:47 Well if you are interested in the technical details, 3BSkyen does hour long dissections of the animation details he can pull apart from tadc episodes as well as some history behind certain things. Also he does gush a lot about the technical aspects, or has strong feelings about 3D motion blur.

Via dot 124

I feel like Jax murdered someone accidentally and ran away, maybe to hide in the potentially abandoned C&A office, where he put on the headset Also I think the photos that Caine has of the office are recreated from the humans' memories, like the one with the lights off is from Pomni, where she'd be exploring an abandoned C&A office, and the ones with the lights on are from the older residents, like Kinger, since Caine seemingly *does* have full access to their minds

jellybrigades

Oh, okay. That makes sense. I still fear what this would’ve looked like completed. I imagine it wouldn’t be different from people referring to ChatGPT for mental health issues. After reading comments about the Chinese room and how it was to a test to prove AI can’t have understanding or a conscience, it sounds like a doomed experiment from the start.

Jittercritter

The Chinese Room is apparently a thought experiment by John Searle, where the point is to put someone who doesn’t know Chinese in a room with a translation book of some kind, then pass them notes and have them respond using that book. The point of the experiment is to emphasize the fact that mimicking/using something doesn’t actually mean understanding it, emphasizing how an AI might mimic human behavior without actually being human-like itself. It’s very interesting.

Albedo12

Importantly, it's NOT translation. The experiment is about demonstrating that a computer program that simulates understanding a language is not the same as a computer actually understanding that language. If you have a computer program that inputs Chinese text, goes through a series of steps, and produces a meaningful response in Chinese at the end, then you can theoretically also present that program as a series of instructions written out in English. If you have that, you can build the Chinese Room: a closed room containing an English speaker, who knows no Chinese, and a copy of those (very complex) instructions. Someone outside the room writes something in Chinese on a piece of paper and slide it under the door. The person inside processes the text according to the instructions, and can then write out a response which gets slid out under the door. Since the person following the instructions does not understand Chinese, they at no point have any idea of what the Chinese text actually says, nor do they understand the response. Since they are doing exactly what the computer program does, we can say that the computer clearly does not understand Chinese either. Caine's own Chinese Room setup is different, inverted. Caine, the computer program, passes Chinese text he does not understand under the door to someone he believes speaks Chinese perfectly, who presumably reads and understands the text, then writes a meaningful response that Caine does not understand. It's like he has to break the model, because otherwise it also demonstrates that he is no more than a complex set of instructions, and denies him any recognition of personhood.

Jittercritter

Poor Caine 😭 but man the meta references and commentary in this show are absolutely genius

Some Simp

Your theories are wring Goodbye lol in all serious Goose said that epsiode 7 was gonna be longer but she decided to cut it into 2 parts. so this episode is a two part-er, next ep is most likely gonna pick up immediately after this ending

Some Simp

Gooseworx said this episode will make certain Fans mad, i think she was referring to the the lore heads, an caine fans

Cali Jester

I think the implication was when Kinger mentioned Scratch. Caine messed with Scratch's mind so much that they obstracted. I think Kinger WAS messed with by Caine. Kinger seems to have some control over the Circus and maybe Caine "scrambled" him to stay in control.

winter cattaile

I feel like there is meaning behind Bobble not being able to cuss (censored) this episode when they were able to previously. When suggesting a beach episode. First time “a f***ing beach…” this time “a f……. Frickin’ beach…” The difference could be nothing but it caught my attention.

Marceline_mother

I don't see Caine as an evil character. I see it more as a mistake from him

Phoenix_mercury

i was thinking more traffic accident(theirs oncoming lights) and he possibly came worse off, was induced into a coma and the "higher ups" expansion included people with no next of kin(jax implies he has no one waiting for him)

Lichen

Definitely inclined to agree! Caine patted Bubble on the head and said good boy. Surely an allusion to ‘training ai.’

Lichen

Just found out that all of the big Digital Circus music vids that include the actual cast for vocals are very clear to add a disclaimer that they are Not Canon…except one, Caine’s vid “Happy Place.” Warning, it gets a lil weird.

Geass

The hotdog must be the real master key to log out.

Zora Brightwood

With the flashes of scenes Jax was seeing while ahving has panic attack, and the room that presumably would be something for a little girl, and how this odd thing of his relationship with Pomni in this episode had a sort of father having trouble saying no to his daughter type of vibe. It seems to point in the direction that he had a daughter who was killed in a car accident, and then found the digital circus to escape his grief.

The Great Quarter Past Five

I don't know if this means anything, or if anyone's brought it up before, but according to Wiktionary, "pomni" is 3rd person singular of a Polish verb meaning "remember" (with similarly sounding/spelled words in other Slavic languages). So, Pomni's name would mean something like "he/she/it remembers".

Tallie c

Omg!!!!!!!! I just realized Zach Hadel voices the yellow fish!! 🤣 That's fantastic.

CRuhl_Para_TPT911

Lucky for Jax that Pomni woke him up when she did because we see he had Abstraction Eyes. Or when Pomni put on the headset it seized up her brain, C&A gets alerted, they collected her and placed her on something mobile, then hooked her up in a pod where,…viola!, she is in The Circus! And of course if you want to conduct questionable programs away from prying eyes, but want to maintain positive control over the area nothing works better than “shuttered” C&A facility still kept on the books with the excuse that it has been shut down for now for cost savings and just running maintenance level. In Abel’s diagram of the Circus, lower portion has a list of C&A employees present. All but Kinger’s are blacked out, and most can’t be made out except for one. Kaufmo. In Caine’s pictures of the C&A facility, the open and empty file cabinets (and stacked furniture) would be in keeping with a facility that has been shut down and cleaned out, but still maintained for future reoccupation. For Kinger, it was dark but we’ve seen it still takes some time before the little squirrel in his mind gets up to full speed on the wheel. And then Zooble’s statement of “why would there be a trick console in Caine’s office?”. The answer is, “Because it’s Caine!” Certainly one thing, this episode is now getting closer to its source of “I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream”. Now we did end the episode still in the Console Room. There is a chance that like in Ep 1 that Caine is lying to cover up for an exposed lie. In this case to make up a stand in Abel to delete while the real human one is still outside on the Circus grounds, or captured by Caine and now tucked away somewhere. But those answers will need to wait til March.

Scorrel

Mosco: "I dont like it, I want it off my screen!" Also Mosco: *pauses for whole minutes on the thing staring at it*

Nami

I really like how you notice things other reactors didn't. I didn't even notice the rainbows in Jax's room. And you're so right the room he's in doesn't seem to reflect like the Jax we know....interesting. And also a lot of the other reactors seemed to have forgotten that Kinger is only sane in the dark half of them were confused. You were only one I've seen actually remember that part lmao Also it caught me off guard them using real life video footage of a real neighborhood. I wonder how this will end, will they show real live actors of all these characters or will they just be animated humans like a hybrid of what Amanda the Adventurer did...hmmm

Lee Goldberg

Notice how Caine said HE was there to have fun. As in fun for HIM, not making things fun for the others

Faroth

And kinger files had admin level protection, thats why caine couldn't mess with his mind but he went insane on its own