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Radio War Nerd #93—Battle of Hué (repost) (Patreon)

Published:
2017-07-20 17:40:29
Imported:
2026-06

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Content

(Reposting this episode again since some subscribers were still having problems with the original post even after the fixes.)

Despite being gravely wounded from a recent tour of the Fenestrelle fortress in the Italian Alps, the War Nerd talks about the big new Mark Bowden book Hué 1968, and his bad memories of the Vietnam War era as it played out on his half-Okie street in the East Area suburbs. . . .We also discuss Gen. Westmoreland, one of the two or three worst generals in American history, as well as Kubrick's defeat in trying to make art out of the battle of Hué . . . 

Hue battle map: 

Total time: 1:48:08

Direct link to this episode's mp3 here 

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Comments

Mat K

First up, get well soon John. Excellent cast as always. Some comments : I can totally get behind hating the false moral dilemma of killing the sniper in FMJ. It was silly and Kubrick was trying to inject something into the film which was not really there. However the final scene where they sing Micky Mouse really spoke to me on so many levels. Showing that these men were really boys, that their “childhood” was being stolen from them by the war, because remember the song changes to Paint it Black by the Rolling Stones pretty soon after when the credits roll. It shows the war as a farce. It shows that even though it is all crazy and wrong, each man was singing in tune and together with full throated force meaning that they were there for each other and working together. I might be a loon and reading too much into it  But I really felt that scene capped off a generally good film. For my money Platoon is the best Vietnam war movie. Apocalypse Now is too sprawling and confused to really say anything about anything. Platoon was tight.

Patrick Reilly

Off topic request: Can you recommend a critical bio of Winston Churchill? The more scathing the better.

Max

My favorite theory is the Mickey Mouse thing really happened (at some point) and was witnessed by a reporter, but since they were now in mixed company the Marines sang the real lyrics and not the ones they usually sang. I had a friend in the marines and there were multiple examples of songs/cadences that involved adding the most depraved lyrics imaginable to the most wholesome songs they could think of. For example the "Candy Man Can" became the "S & M Man Can" and whoa boy what he 'mixed with love'. Their officers always got VERY nervous about the wrong people hearing them, obviously because it's almost impossible to explain to the general public how anything so sick could be considered that funny, or why they would be allowed to sing it even if it was (and in fairness, the mysogeny especially was genuinely distrubing). In any case singing the song straight was SO innocent it HAD to be some kind of inside joke. I felt like FMJ was the "real" vietnam... as told to reporters like Michael Herr.

radiowarnerd

I'm SURE they sang incredibly depraved songs. Even those drill-cadence songs: 'I don't know but I've been told...' with very insensitive punchlines about 'Eskimo girls'. But the thing is, as I remember the movie (and it was a while ago), they just sang the regular Mickey Mouse theme song with the Disney lyrics. What fun is that?

radiowarnerd

Hi Patrick. Its a good question but my problem with Churchill is that I can't fucking stand him, which makes it hard to read bios. Just Googled some and they all seem to be halo-pasting exercises, except 'Churchill: The End of Glory' by John Charmley. Can't vouch for it though.

radiowarnerd

That's true, re stolen childhood. You know, I might have resented that. Something about the American idea of extended childhood. Probably projection about my own contemptibly slow maturation. But you know you read about 14-year-old African soldiers who saw their whole family die and they're, if anything, too grown up.

Max

It was the regular version, yeah. Just wondering how it got into the movie, because I'm guessing Kubrick didn't make it up. A lot of the stories got in there from journalists (a lot of the Vietnam anecdotes are directly from the book Dispatches) and while they're "true" it seems like a lot of things went over the reporter's heads. Seems like one of them.

Seth Reed

Hey, Patrick! If John doesn't have a recommendation than the peanut gallery will

Seth Reed

pipe up to recommend "Churchill's War" by David Irving. Scandalous on many levels including the biographer himself.

xnfec

Weird that the colours identifying the Italian resistance mirrored those used to identify the chariot racers in ancient rome/byzantium.