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The Wire, Season 2, Episode 11 (Patreon)

Published:
2025-02-12 23:43:16
Imported:
2026-06
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Content

Bad Dreams

Files

Previews only

Wire2 11

Comments

MrRuss50

Glad you guys enjoy the show as much as you do. Season 3 and 4 are going to be amazing. I don't mind hyping up your expectations because the show will beat them. Guaranteed. Breaking Bad was an excellent show but The Wire at its peak is the best.

Pam Nail

The show was nominated for two writing Emmys -- one for a season three episode (rot13 for spoilers - gur bar jurer Fgevatre vf xvyyrq) and one for the series finale. But no recognition for any of the cast or directing, and of course no wins. I think part of the problem is that the show was exclusively a Baltimore production (and therefore entirely divorced from Hollywood or New York), which made it basically invisible to the television Academy. You could write a book on all the awards it deserved, from directing, writing and acting on down to makeup and hair (for Bubbles alone).

trenton gragg

“You know what the trouble is, Brucey? We used to make shit in this country, build shit. Now we just put our hand in the next guy's pocket.” That is one of the best quotes of the entire series.

Jonathan
>>164531815

Yes unfortunately it had a notorious reputation for being hard to follow and once people took a pass on it in season 1 they didn’t go back. The critics that were excited for the show before it premiered were looking for Homicide 2.0 and this was much more gritty and slow paced though both shows are a work of art they are different styles. A lot of people discovered the show in Season 3 because HBO aired it as a fall series with all the press that goes with that instead of a summer series like season 1 and 2

Roland Cooke

The journalist in the blue shirt shouting questions during Frank Sobotka's perp walk was David Simon. 🙂

Roland Cooke

The passport Spiros shows to Niko is Hungarian, the replacement passport Spiros is given is Croatian.

Youtalkingtome
>>164531815

Just proves that awards mean nothing. This stands on its own as a phenomenal piece of television. This might be my favorite season of television I've ever seen. Over MM, GOT. This takes the cake. Just wonderful.

prolifik5

The girl Nicky slept with is Prissy "everybody down the Point fucked her the once, Zig" Catlow (i.e., the girl from Ziggy's fake paternity suit).

prolifik5
>>164531815

And yet the consensus among Wire fans (including me) is that the next two seasons are the best. Shows you the calibre of TV we're dealing with.

prolifik5

As great as this episode is, I think it does feature two rare instances of the writers taking questionable narrative shortcuts to get where they wanted to go: - Letting Frank leave and come back tomorrow was at least as dumb as what Jay did. These guys are so careful they leave their victims handless and faceless! Even without the FBI connection, allowing their key witness to walk off without even assigning some kind of protective detail was absurd. They could have called a lawyer right then and there - Frank already has a couple that he retained after they arrested him. - Omar accepting Stringer's story at face value without even running it by Butchie seems completely out of character for me. It raises so many obvious questions. Why is Stringer just now sharing this information? Where has Mouzone been over the last year or so? In fact, if he's really that desperate to "build his rep" by taking out Omar, why did Omar never hear about him when he originally learned who kidnapped Brandon? For a guy who's normally that meticulous about what he does, I couldn't believe he would be taken in by a ruse like that.

Youtalkingtome
>>164587890

Those are both really great observations. The Omar one bothered me in real time (you're really just going to take Stringer's word for anything right now?), but the one where they let Frank leave to be killed didn't register with me. He's your star witness against a major crime organization.

prolifik5
>>164545358

He has a few blink-and-you'll-miss-it cameos throughout the series. He's also a bailiff at the end of Season 1 (you don't see him, but you hear him doing the announcements before D'Angelo's sentencing).

Rozenn Keribin

Remember the conversation Ziggy and Frank had earlier in the season where they reminisced about the good old days? And my theory that is wasn't that much of a sweet moment of connection but more deflection on both sides? As I said in the rot13 section, this is the conversation I think it's worth comparing it to. This is maybe the first time in both their lives that Ziggy is open and honest with his father (which required him first being open and honest with himself), and Frank makes the effort to actually *see* his son. It's amazing catharsis, and it's heartbreaking that it's the last time they see each other but at least they had that. Also like how it resonates with you exasperatedly saying last week "Ziggy, you're not That Guy!!!". No he isn't, and he finally seems to have accepted this.

Youtalkingtome
>>164681166

That's a great take on their earlier "heart to heart" conversation. They never really actually say anything that matters. Any time Frank got close, Ziggy shut it down and said everything between them was fine.

Rozenn Keribin

I have many thoughts on Ziggy; they probably would have been more relevant in a previous episode (most notably all the duck shenanigans) but those passed and now I'm running out of episodes to talk about him lol not to spoil any later seasons or anything. I had a kind of epiphany on bullying awhile ago after watching an episode of Yellowjackets where we see a flashback of the girl who gets bullied being bullied, and it felt like seeing the Matrix - I'd been that girl, but unlike me then I felt I also *understood* what was going on. Mean girls were phoning her asking her about a rumor that she'd made out or had sex or something with a boy, and she was frantically trying to dissuade them and it was SO clear - she knew she was being bullied, that these girls had bad intentions, but she also thought there was an actual rumor she needed to disprove and THERE OBVIOUSLY WASN'T. The other girls were lying to her to get her to feel and react that way, AND THAT WAS THE FUN OF IT FOR THEM. Knowing they were a step ahead of her and could therefore manipulate her so easily. The epiphany for me was understanding that *this* was why she was the target of the bullying - not her being nerdy, or how she looked, or anything like that per se - it was the fact she had less awareness of how the social game is played, she was less adept at its rules, such that she *would* get taken in by such a phone call even though the tactic seemed so transparent from the outside. And I think this applies full-on to Ziggy. Now, that kid has definitely played badly with the hand he was dealt. Deciding to play the masculinity game by being a toxic male is a choice that he made. Still, it is so obvious that his major problem is his complete inability to understand and follow the social codes of the worlds he's in, and he knows he's failing but also what else is he supposed to do but try? And I think you can also see how those different worlds recognize that about him and punish him for it. The drug world definitely does. The dockers actually do have some affection for him as he is one of their own but they're also pretty merciless about his failures to integrate - it's a sink-or-swim culture and if Ziggy sinks it's on him not them. Striking scenes for me are when they go from celebrating the duck to blaming him for its death - which, OK I can kind of get a sense of "well it's his duck we assumed if he was fine with it drinking then it was fine" but still pretty obvious hypocrisy there. And of course the group setting him up to fight that guy, which also highlights Ziggy's inability to understand what happened (which is the reason they did it) - he's up there shouting "you gave me bad advice!" as if they're laughing because they think it's his fault he lost a fight, when they're actually laughing at him for believing their obviously bad advice. I think it kind of illustrates a paradox of macho cultures too - Ziggy is trying to be a macho man in the macho cultures he's in (the drug lords and dockers) and he thinks that means behaving in certain toxic ways, but none of the most well-respected men in the macho cultures in question are quite as toxic as that.

Youtalkingtome
>>164711105

Yes, I think you're putting your finger on something we've been trying to figure out about Ziggy. All this comes from insecurity and weird pressure that this kid has had his whole life. I believe adults should be accountable for their actions. However, his character is extremely tragic

IDoDabble

Having watched The Wire a few times now, I have a visceral emotional reaction to that montage music at the end, when the Greeks are having dinner. It sounds cruel and gutting to me.