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The West Wing, Season 2, Episode 2 (Patreon)

Published:
2023-03-10 14:41:04
Imported:
2026-06
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Content

Season premier, Part 2

Files

Previews only

The West Wing, Season 2, Episode 2

Comments

Weird Magic

"Originally airing on October 4, 2000, ""In the Shadow of Two Gunmen: Part II"" is Episode 2 of Season 2 of The West Wing. It is the 24th episode overall and has an IMDB rating of 9.3, placing it as the #4 ranked episode of this season and #4 out of all 155 episodes."

Pam Nail

There's a deleted scene from this episode with Leo and Danny where he addresses Danny's question. He basically says *he* was the one in charge (we did see Hoynes defer to him in the Sit Room) and that there was an unspoken assumption by everyone in the room that he spoke for the President. He also makes a comment about not *wanting* the Cabinet to vote to hand power to the Vice President (which would have been the next step with no signed letter), because he didn't like how the phrase "mentally incapacitated" would look in the press. Danny asks what would have happened if he had needed to use military force - what if, for example, it hadn't been a couple of white supremacists but had been a foreign power instead. Leo says "I had the army." Danny responds, "That's a bone-chilling thought." Leo finishes, "Tell me about it."

Luca Siracusa (Bob)

I really stopped myself to say many things in the last episode because I wanted to wait for this one Jed IS the thing, he is the big thing. For all the first season they showed him as a kind and amazing man, always there for his staff and for people, YET Sheen really portrayed him in these episodes in a way nobody else could imagine Bartlet was He had good heart but he wasn't nice to be around: he was stressed, he was aubrupt, he was angry, he was aggressive. You really start to wonder wether what you've seen in the first season is maybe something you wanted him to be. You start to wonder wether he is really the man, the thing they are saying he is And then there's the airport scene. You don't notice it first, but Bartlet is anticipated with agents surrounding Josh and his seat. What you see in that scene is not a Congressman talking to his staff, he's a father taking to a son. He handle the situation with care, with some little jokes and a lot of heart. He may get stressed about the campaign, he may fear to get this big role in politics, but he doesn't hesitate a single moment to help someone who's struggling and is alone. Bartlet and Josh have this father-son relationship that started in that airport, the night of the Illinois primary. It's a cute, unseen moment by everyone but them. Only Josh and Jed know what they've said to each others in those seats and Bartlet really took him under his wing like he later did with Charlie That's why in the first episode he wants to go see Josh, that's why he feels so much anger: because him deciding not to use a tent injured Josh. It's his son on that table, the son he never had. The son he adopted when he lost his own biological father. And as much every scene in these two episodes is amazing, from their first meetings to how they handled the situation, nothing tops the Airport moment when they learn about each others more than they could've ever thought before. And Josh learned from Bartlet, he accepted this father-son relationship. He's the one he speaks to as soon as he wakes up and he's the one's from whom he stole the catchphrase as a first thought after waking up: "What's next?" Bartlet is his role model, his father figure and his president. With the last one being really the less important of those Little (not really) fun fact about the scene. Bradley Whiford's father died before he could show him the pilot of The West Wing and Martin really bonded with him on the set. I like to think they've put a lot of their real relationship and their real love for each others in that scene, and maybe that Sorkin wrote it to let them express the deep and sweet relationship they developed on set.

Kevin M. Pitts

From the first time I saw it more than 20 years ago to now (probably more than a dozen times later) these remain two of my favorite episodes of television ever made. It was such a nice gift to the fans of that first season to open season two on showing how this whole group came together in the first place. These episodes are so full of great Sorkin dialogue but I always enjoy the scene between Leo and Margaret when she tells him she can sign the President's name. They play it so straight it makes it all the funnier. As for Mandy, I love Moira Kelly. She's done some great work and I was initially happy that she was on the show. However, the character just didn't mesh well and wasn't really going anywhere and I think I remember that she had a discussion with the producers about that late in the first season and so they decided it was best to just let her character sort of fade away. As for the rest of the cast, I think that it is a testament to the casting that these people all still remain very close to this day.

Weird Magic
>>103756600

By the way - this is the first time I've done this, the IMDB thing and dates and stuff - does anyone think it's spoilery? I don't personally, but I 100% agree with Joe and Kevin that they should enjoy this the same way we did 20+ years ago and don't want to do anything anyone objects to.

Weird Magic
>>103760160

No offense to anyone else ever - but this might be the best-written,most inciteful comment I've ever read on a message board....well done.

Joy M

I think Mandy represented the Party and not the administration and that was the issue. She was on the party’s payroll NOT the WH payroll so she was answering to two masters and that’s a bad position to be in.

Taylor

Totally didn’t mean to spoil anything by saying that a character was gone with no explanation. Sorry about that!

JVTrickypants

That son of a bitch and that egg!!! LOL

JVTrickypants

How much Sorkin wrings out of the word "OK" in the entire series is amazing, but Charlie's repeated use of it when told he was the target is a brilliant example.

David Vandervliet

With Moira Kelly's departure from the series, the concept of "Mandyville" became a thing, whenever a secondary character disappears without explanination, the fandom says they've moved to Mandyville. When the series started, the President was not going to be major character, and he was only going to show up in maybe 1 of every 4 episodes, which is why he doesn't show up until the very end of the pilot ("I am the lord your god!") Rob Lowe's character was intended to be the POV character (and surrogate for Aaron Sorkin himself, a writer) but Martin Sheen was just too good to not be moved front and center, and everyone knew it right away.

Weird Magic

Question not related to the show/episode, but I know Joe and Kevin always say we have to bring our own version to watch (which I do) because they can't show it...but...I've never seen that on Patreon. I know YouTube won't let you show everything because of copyright, but every reactor I've watched on Patreon (granted not dozens because I am selective w/my money - hint hint Kevin and Joe are worth it IMO - but the 6 or so I have paid for) have used their full copy of the show, with their cut out in the corner what-have-you. Is there something I'm missing with the copyright rule or are Kevin and Joe assuming it can't be played in full here when it can? I don't think Patreon blocks it.... I could be wrong....but....figured it was worth a shot :)

Youtalkingtome
>>103762296

I agree, Moira Kelly is a very talented actor. Mandy's character just kinda ran out of stuff to do I guess. I would love to be a fly on the wall during the downtime in between filming.

Youtalkingtome
>>103792091

It is interesting that Rob Lowe is top billed but he seems like a supporting character. I would say Josh feels the most like the main character.

MarkyO

Hello! I'm so happy someone's finally giving the time of day to this series. This is probably one of, if not, my favorite TV show of all time. I'm new here! But I'm so happy someone's finally watching West Wing. So, I'll be your trivia guru :) In this episode, if you want to go back and listen, the voice that calls Josh's flight in the airport is actually Martin Sheen doing it. At the beginning of the episode where they arrest the skin head dude, the 'helicopter' was actually just a static spotlight hoisted on a crane. They had a tight budget. Not sure if people have covered this, but Martin Sheen has a shoulder injury so he has a limit range of motion. So the next time he puts on a jacket, pay attention to the way he does it. He kind of just flips it on with both arms which is the only way he's only ever done it. It's all Martin. As for people getting shot.. Aaron Sorkin knew that the president was going to be shot. They also knew that someone else needed to have been shot but they had trouble deciding who. They eventually decided it would be Josh. When the first episode aired, Bradley Whitford told his then wife to be careful watching the episode. Apparently she had a strong reaction to it. Sadly they recently divorced :( In other Aaron Sorkin shows, Gage Whitney is referenced as a law firm. The show that immediately comes to mind is Studio 60. This goes way back.. but as for The American President, Sorkin said that alot of lines that didn't make it into the movie found their way into the first couple episodes of the show. There are alot of 'Sorkinisms' that you can recognize... You guys have seen The Newsroom, so "gather ye rosebuds" is one of them (Donna says this to Josh in the hotel room during their California trip when Josh is trying to court Joey... Sloan Sabbath also says it to Will McAvoy). He also loves to reference Don Quixote. And also the "egg" joke, which you did catch I think. Bartlet forgetting names isn't just a gag on the show. Martin Sheen is actually horrible with remembering names.

Youtalkingtome
>>103802697

Hmm, we will look into that. As far as we know we can't show it. We will definitely do some research! Also thank you for saying that, we truly appreciate it.

Youtalkingtome
>>103873229

Wow! Thank you so much for laying it all down for us. Please feel free to hit us up with as much trivia as possible! We love this show and we love learning about this show. It's so incredibly interesting!!

Peggy G

Once you guys have finished the series, which I realize is still a long ways off, there are compilations of Sorkinisms on YouTube that fans have put together over the years that are fun to watch. You'll see a line used on SportsNight, then on Studio 60, then The West Wing, then The Newsroom, etc... Sam once says to [avoiding any potential spoiler], "Good writers borrow from other wrtiers; great ones steal from them outright." which is a loose quote of T.S. Eliot, but if I were Aaron Sorkin and wrote as brilliantly as he does, I'd steal from myself, too. :) Keep the trivia coming, MarkyO!

Youtalkingtome
>>103891503

I was already familiar with the fact that he reuses a lot of the same lines but I didn't realize that it was this broad. I love it when you can tell who wrote something just purely based off their dialogue.

Kelsey Krehbiel

The little speech that CJ gives about gun violence always gives me chills

Roland Cooke

When you eventually do your re-watch of all seven seasons (and you will, believe me), you will want to listen to each episode of The West Wing Weekly Podcast, you know this already. What I love about this episode of the podcast is that their guest is a representative of "that women's group with the silly name" (aka Emily's List, a real-life organization promoting women in politics).

Roland Cooke
>>103765120

Sorkin (et al) have held their hands up that the fault was with the writing of Mandy, not the actress' work.

Joy M
>>103765120

Good to know. I also wonder if the ensemble was just too big at that point.

Ryan Fisher

Obviously late to the party as I rewatch the series with you guys. As memory serves, the first season was incredibly well received but the ratings were not stellar. It wasn’t lowly rated by any stretch, but the show was very expensive to produce and the ratings were sort of middle of the road. The “Who’s Been Hit!?!” promos were super hyped up over the summer, and the ratings for these first two episodes of season two, which aired on the same night were through the roof, and the show took off from there. This episode was written almost like a second pilot for those newer viewers like me. This was the first episode of the West Wing I ever watched. I was a lifelong fan from this episode on, but it was years before I got the DVDs and went back to see the first season. (I must have been like “Who is this crazy lady driving on the curb?”) If you think about it, Sorkin did a masterful job of not making people like you feel they were being talked down to in summing up the show for new viewers. You got a lot of the backstory that had been hinted at and a full explanation for why this team gelled with this president. Terrific stuff. A few things that jumped out at me on the rewatch. Hoynes, despite being played up as a power hungry and spiteful politician refused to sit in Bartlet’s chair in the Situation Room and deferred to Leo. There’s a deleted scene from the episode where Leo comments on this. Showing that sometimes terrible people are incredibly stupid, Charlie didn’t have a protection detail but the killers decided to try to off him while he was surrounded by the US Secret Service. At the airport, Martin Sheen is the one doing the announcement for the departing planes.

Youtalkingtome
>>152852533

I mean yeah, it's one of the best cliffhangers of all time. Season 2 of this show remains my personal favorite.