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The West Wing, Season 3, Episode 11 (Patreon)

Published:
2023-10-10 11:17:36
Imported:
2026-06
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Content

H. Con-172

Files

Previews only

The West Wing, Season 3, Episode 11

H. Con-172

Comments

Pam Nail

- I enjoy this one a lot (mostly -- see below). I have it at #96 for the series overall and it's my #13 for the season. - Looks like Max has put the "previouslies" back on the episodes. Oddly, they have *not* put the intro for "Isaac and Ishmael" back (I was going to point it out, since we're past the spoilers). - Love the LION IN WINTER references! Great movie and a great Christmas watch. Katharine Hepburn, Peter O'Toole, Anthony Hopkins, Timothy Dalton, and some fantastic writing. - Man, I hate that moment where Josh and Amy make fun of the waitress. I get there's maybe a flirty thing and a tiny jealousy thing going on, but it's not, you know, unheard of that the woman is serving them drinks to pay her way through college or law school or BALLET SCHOOL (JOSH!). Way to sound like two people who didn't have to work a single day to pay their way through school!

Youtalkingtome

Yeah, we weren't really okay with how they talked down about the waitress, either.

Weird Magic

West Wing tended (not 100% but close) to stay in the "live" timeline with when the episode airs....Christmas episodes aired @ Xmas....Thanksgiving episodes end of Nov....right now it is early January so in the next episodes are probably State of the Union (they mentioned Toby working on a draft in this episode) etc. Since a Presidential Election is in November..... Originally airing on January 9, 2002, ""H. Con-172"" is Episode 11 of Season 3 of The West Wing. It is the 55th episode overall and has an IMDB rating of 8.1, placing it as the #12 ranked episode of this season and #38 out of all the episodes shown so far.

Roland

I smiled when you guys actually used the words 'move on', because that's where MoveOn.Org came from I.e. "President Clinton accepts the censure and we all move on to more important things". The map conversations obviously made me think of the current situation in Israel, a topic that will be returned to again and again in The West Wing, and rightly so. But it's clear that while Qumar can be a stand in for Saudi Arabia (etc), there's simply no way to similarly mask Israel. I get why displaying the map in The White House would be an issue, someone is bound to assume that Bartlet posted it up as an official banner for "Make the Middle East Great Again" or something. And finally, while revealing his MS probably would have cost Jed Bartlet the Presidency, and might well derail a 2023 candidate the same way, it is heartening to see that John Fetterman and Linda Hidalgo can get treatment for clinical depression and not have it completely torpedo their political careers. Finally, Joanna Gleason, amirite? :)

Martin Nicholls

The Negotiator is such an underrated movie, and yeah he was great in that. The John Spencer one that is funny looking back as 'practically uncredited' is his appearance at the start of War Games. If he's typecast at all he played cops quite a lot. By the way I'm not sure how well known this is but Rob Lowe and the Sheen/Estévez family were neighbours when Rob Lowe was growing up and in his first autobiography (Stories I Only Tell My Friends) he talks about how Martin Sheen changed before to after shooting Apocalypse Now - I mean it's actually just a good book generally. I still haven't got around to reading his second one :(

JVTrickypants
>>119488484

Me noticing him in WarGames, "Don't do it, Leo...you're right, don't do it!!" Then...*squints*..."oh crap, that's Mr. Blonde, he will shoot (your ear off), turn it, Leo!!"

D Gyre

I love Leo defending the President, but for the analogy to work it's really more like a shot gun, leo's going to take some of the shot, but so are the people who testify after him, and its long and drawn out. And the president still gets hurt. So really its more the president deciding to take a bean bag, just him, and saving everyone else taking some of the shot. That's why Leo's sentiment is right...but it doesn't actually apply to this solution. I think at least.

Paul T Hewes

"I take a bullet for the President, he doesnt take one for me." That response left Cliff speechless for a moment. Almost stunned. The loyalty that Leo shows to the President in that moment kinda took Cliff aback. -Also, when Josh told Amy he didnt talk to her in college, it was because he felt he needed to study hard because he didnt think he was that smart and he wanted to do what he is doing. That has stuck with me since the show aired in 2001/2002.

Joy M

Do you guys go in for British shows?

Sunkrish Bala

Mary Louise Parker is tremendous in this episode. So nuanced. And funny.

Youtalkingtome
>>119481238

Joanna Gleason is an absolute delight. I think Fetterman and Hidalgo are a great example. It's not the same as MS but it's an issue that is very relatable and the fact that they can talk about it, makes it seem like they aren't hiding it from the American people.

Luca Siracusa (Bob)

"I take a bullet for the President, he doesnt take one for me" That's what a normal President and Chief of Staff would do, not what Jed Bartlet would do. Jed is a man of love, respect and honor He would never let Leo take a bullet for him doing something wrong and what he said at the end of "I am to blame" I don't really have a lot to say about an episode that is just based on "Be held accountable" I may also say that seeing Bartlet, CJ and Charlie in that "underwear thing" for Jed having children was HILARIOUS. I mean, it's such a surreal image and discussion that almost makes a whole turn and seems polite. "You fool. As if it matters how a man falls down" "When the fall is all that's left...it matters a great deal" It matters a great deal and Bartlet fell with honor just to rise up again

Baeziii

You are gonna love the Season 4 Christmas episode.

Kelsey Krehbiel

Oh man, Martin Sheen really does not ever fail. He's always great. If you haven't checked out Grace and Frankie on Netflix, he's wonderful in that as well. He plays more of a supporting role, but he's fantastically funny!

Balazs Foldes

This episode is one reminder of how crazily we fall for tribal/partisan thinking. You automatically feel pushed to approach all issues, questions, situations through the 'we vs them' glasses. It's so incredibly difficult to judge things based on objective criteria, based on the merits of the issue. You just cannot easily detach yourself from yor presumptions and your views on people involved. If the other guys announce something, I always start looking for the sinister intent, the fraud, the selfishness, the politics behind it. If our guys do a similar things, I just start looking for excuses, go back for the benefit of doubt, see the bright side. I try to push myself to look at things the other ways as well, but it's really not easy. The same thing here was so well wirtten with Bartlet. As soon as the 'debate' starts, whether censure should be accepted or not, your brain automatically starts fighting FOR your guy, against the others. Find excuses, look at political realities, doing cost-benefit analysis. And the realistic answer comes from Bartlet in the end: that's not what you should be thinking about. A censure is a fair response, because I did something wrong. You had the same thing coming up, a little differently, in the season opening episodes. Originally, Sam was suggesting that Bartlet should apologise; then they dig in their trenches, and when the same suggestion is coming from Doug or Bruno, they are fighting the notion vehemently already.

JVTrickypants

Leo is one of those situations you hear about in Hollywood where for the longest time they had the character as "A John Spencer type."

JVTrickypants

Hearing about overpowering the Capitol Police hits a bit different now.

JVTrickypants

Also, Amy said "a late drink" but the horrible, no good, very bad captioning put dinner. It's amazing Sorkin didn't lose his mind over that since every single word and "um" were not allowed to be changed by the actors.

Youtalkingtome
>>119624709

Agreed, obviously because of the emotional investment to the characters we wanna fight for them and hop on their bandwagon, but you gotta take a step back and see the big picture.

Joy M

Hey Guys, a while back I made a comment about the TV show Condor and that you might want to check it out. If you have Xfinity/Comcast MGM+ is free this week. It’s 2 seasons at 10 episodes each. Enjoy!