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Mad Men, Season 5, Episode 8 (Patreon)

Published:
2024-01-18 18:59:55
Imported:
2026-06
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Content

Lady Lazarus

Comments

Actuarial Lurker

The actress playing Beth, Alexis Beidel, the wife of the guy from the train is the real-life spouse of Vincent Kartheiser, the actor who plays Pete. They met on set and wound up getting married

Actuarial Lurker

The episode was named after the Sylvia Plath poem from 1965, while this episode takes place in 1966. The poem is about a woman who views herself as a form of Lazarus because she continuously fails in multiple suicide attempts and therefore views each as a form of Lazarus being called by Jesus from the grave....the question is who does this refer to? Megan arising from the death of advertising by quitting? Beth for living with a serial cheater in the insurance salesman and searching for other men while he stays away from home?

Actuarial Lurker

Matt Wiener the show runner when interviewed CONFIRMED that the empty elevator shaft was meant to be real BUT symbolize how Don felt that he had just lost control over Megan....

Actuarial Lurker

So did Peggy botch the line on purpose by saying "Just Try It" rather than "Just Taste It"?...since that little change makes it the tag line sound whiny rather than getting the audience to chime in like in the office trial run. Peggy did pout throughout the episode since she viewed Megan as throwing away an opportunity that she herself had to fight for....

Actuarial Lurker

Wiener paid a lot of money to license "Tomorrow Never Knows" for the show- to make a point that Don is just as old fashioned as Peggy accused Freddie of being....

Robert Bauman

Don definitely says and does all the right things after Megan tells him of her decision. But I agree that after 4.5 seasons with him, we're conditioned to wait for his implosion. Of all his issues he has the abandonment ones might be the strongest, and this could certainly stir them up.

Robert Bauman

It's impressive how quickly and seamlessly the show brought Megan in and made her a compelling character. Going from a minor background character to Don's wife instantly was a pretty bold choice from the writers, but she's a pretty integral part of this season. Also may be the least amount of power we've seen Don have in a relationship to this point. If anything she seems more likely to outgrow him in the relationship then vice versa.

tom

I absolutely love Peggy in this episode. And Elisabeth Moss is just fantastic, the way she changes her face to react to lines or moments is basically its own story. I love that Peggy is so grounded and emotionally mature, yet also can come off as childish with the way she sulks and yells at Don, yet it's also completely justified? So complex and she feels like a real person. PIZZA HOUSE also cracked me up the first time I watched. Despite navigating these social situations and being pretty good at it, Peggy is so wonderfully awkward and it's a good way to show she's still the same character from S1 despite being probably the most evolved. Oh, and that cool whip pitch is hard to watch, as a very cringe-sensitive person who gets so much secondhand embarrassment I have to literally look away, I hate when Mad Men makes me watch moments like that -- but it does it so well!

Youtalkingtome
>>127380408

Peggy is so different. S1 Peggy seems like a completely different character to me. I love her progression and it does seem believable. It's just wild where she is now compared to then. One of the best TV characters ever.

tom

You mentioned that it feels like Don wouldn't like Megan being in advertising because he wants her to be domestic like Betty, and I used to scratch my head over that too but after pondering on it I think that read of Don is a bit too simple. To me, if that was the case then Don's disillusionment with his marriage would come after the Heinz pitch, but instead he's on cloud nine and loving it. His issue is when she says that isn't the life for her! Don can be an old grouch that seems out of touch, but I think he really enjoyed his 60s wife that worked with him in the office and excelled at what she did. He wasn't even jealous, which again I'd expect to happen if it was more of a traditionalism thing. I think Don can handle moving times and new dynamics, but it has to fit within his box of control. Megan was his wife that worked at HIS company and came to HIS office, and set HIM up for success like with Heinz. What I agree with you on is that Don needs a pathological level of control, and I think he feels like he owns Megan -- she's his wife and his employee. We've seen a bit of that conflict before, but in this episode he seems to realize she is her own person and has ideas for herself that conflict with what Don's perception of her is.

tom
>>127380408

I've rewatched the show a couple times, and it never gets any less strange going back to the start and seeing Peggy as Don's assistant.

Youtalkingtome
>>127380913

I think that is a really smart read of this relationship. She in many ways did come after him. His proposal was rash and he does hold a lot of control over her. I think when this does blow up he will be completely without control. She's gunna hurt him and in many ways he deserves it.

Actuarial Lurker
>>127335925

Raises the question of whether Peggy is off her game too- just like Roger, Don, and Lane- you brought it up during the discussion in the video. Peggy is losing the approval of her mom- which is an empty well- regarding Abe moving in and lost the Heinz beans account to a woman who doesn't even want to be in advertising- so perhaps she is distracted

Robert Bauman
>>127380913

Agree with this summary - very well put. I think he's fine with her working and having professional aspirations, as long as they are on his terms.

tom

On character flaws • I feel like I go back and forth on if Peggy has healthily integrated work into her life. She says nothing feels as important as working, and we do indeed see her familial and romantic relationships having issues, but in these past couple seasons we see her very at ease in the workplace. Though that perhaps only speaks to her self-assuredness and doesn't answer whether she's putting too much focus on her career. • I'd argue Joan even at this stage is a flawed person and some of those flaws landed her in this current predicament. She got unlucky with Greg's personality, true, but she also clearly ignored many of his issues early on due to her tunnel vision. There's the big one, but also the little ways he undermined her along the way which should point to very clear incompatibilities. If it was almost any other female character on the show it could be explained by the attitudes of the time making her unable to comprehend these ideas, but we know that Joan knows better than that. That's what's so tragic about her character to me, she's so motivated to get to that vision of perfect domestic traditionalism that she's willing to ignore any warning signs. She's limited by her own beliefs and internalized sexism. • Pete again goes from a hateable weasel to a sympathetic child to a hateable weasel again. I find Beth very interesting, as well as her allure to Pete. There's a distant coldness to her, and her existential wonderings aren't' quite grasped by Pete but he latches onto nonetheless. I also wonder if this is the first time Pete has come across a woman that sets boundaries in an open way, spurring his rant about those evil women telling you no sometimes. For him, there's a bit of an obvious power play with his train buddy going on, a bit of Don Draper idolizing, but he also seems completely smitten with Beth. The way he sympathizes with her plight of her husband's infidelity is of course hilarious given what he's doing and has done to Trudy. To this day I don't know if the heart on the window was her opening the door to him or, by erasing it, sending a message that their time together is over. Pete seems to interpret it as the former by the almost hopeful/satisfied expression he gives. If he was a healthy person I'd say it could be the latter and he was able to be content leaving something good in the past, but it's Pete.

Youtalkingtome
>>127480998

I definitely took the heart on the window as the latter. You're right Pete is Pete and only time can tell. Watching this for the first time it's hard to predict what storyline is continuing and what is concluded.

Jesus

Really glad you guys have come around to believe Don is actually trying to be a good husband to Meagan. Doomed to fail as he may be.

Jesus
>>128694459

Thats to me the best part of the show and the crux of his tragedy. Like how Edward Scissorhands cant ever touch someone without cutting them.

Scott Pearson Eberly

Curious… why would you stop, especially in the middle of a season doing away with a full length YouTube version? Is it merely to save time from uploading/exporting? It’s been an interesting experience rewatching one of my favorite shows Mad Men with you guys. Before this I had only watched YouTube cuts of movie reactions when I’m finishing up a project and color grading. I’ve really enjoyed the experience, but I also realized I listen to you before and after the episode, however, during the episodes I’d CC you guys on my iPad while watching on a 95 inch screen. I like to peak at you guys but I’m a dialogue guy and it’s all I want to hear. Now, I’ll see you guys laugh or look surprised but I have no idea what you’re saying, Plus it’s not worth the effort to try and re-sync since you don’t stick a time code with the count. Just curious why you did away with it. Regardless, $5 a month was well worth the experience. Thanks.