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Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice (Patreon)

Published:
2024-01-06 01:36:25
Imported:
2026-06
Tags:

Content

I had some problems with the movie itself (plot choices especially), but man, I love Batfleck!

*Buttfleck

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Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice

Comments

KrakenKing

So this is now your second experience with the Doomsday character (I believe), although this one generally pales in comparison to other iterations. What’re your thoughts on him in general?

Narutoanime16

I love how both Bruce & Clark are going through different problems & by the end Bruce has a change of heart. & Diana is awesome! & yea it’s not perfect but I still like the movie & it’s so reminiscent of Dark Knight Returns & Jeremy Irons as Alfred was great too. Loved the Batmobile, them teasing justice league and the dreams that Bruce had were of a different timeline where Superman turns, more will be explained in Synders Justice League but Flash had to time travel to tell Bruce the info but he went back too early

FearTheTREMOR

So yeah its hard to figure out but I think there's enough of context for why Batman wanted him dead. Yeah it's not Clark's fault, but Bruce was right in the middle of the catastrophe during Man of Steel. He looks up, and who does he see? The Invincible Superman who's taking part in the destruction. But more than that motivation, there's more that kinda makes it clear why Bruce is even in the headspace of killing at all. This is a veteran Batman. He's spent 20 years doing this, and that shot of the suit with the Joker saying "The jokes on you Batman!" Shows that Bruce has been through it all. He's lost everyone. No Robin, no other allies (which probably means Selina isn't around either) and its turned Bruce into a jaded cynic. He doesn't believe anymore. He's lost his hope. And although Batman is a dark character, you definitely know by now Batman is a hero that inspires hope. He believes. So having one that has lost his way, I think makes for a pretty interesting story. Of course, they could've stranded to communicate this more, which would've made the story work more but alas. I think the base concept of these two facing off is very interesting in a world before the Justice League exists. Also there's some really cool mirror dynamics that Batman has lost so much of himself, he even behaves a little like his villains. During the fight with Clark, when he shoots the first Kryptonite grenade at Clark, he says "Breathe it in. That's fear." That's very much a Scarecrow thing to say, with the fear toxin. And hell, it even kind of fits more, cause when Bruce blocks the punch, Clark looks very afraid. 😅 Another one is when Bruce's mask breaks off in the bathroom after Clark gets hit with another grenade. Half of his face is normal, and half is still covered in the Bat Mech suit. Very much like Two Face. Then the last one I noticed is when he smashes Clark's head in with the sink. The way he poses his hands up before he does it is very much like Bane. Bane breaking Batmans back is iconic in the comics, and the sink move he does takes Clark completely out of the fight. Pretty similar. This may not be the case at all, but I dont know, the shoe fits lol. This goes to support that this Batman is just not the same man. 20 years has changed him to the point, he's becoming the very thing he hates.

The Amazing Webhead

Oh boy, the day has arrived! Meg so this was a big deal for everyone because Batman and Superman in the same live action movie was an idea that was almost made for a decade but never got into development. When Marvel prove that a shared movie universe could work, DC right away decided to just rush to the Justice League so instead of Man of Steel 2, we got this and it had mix responses. There are people who did enjoy it and love Ben’s Batman, while others don’t like the dark direction they were going for, making Clark depressed for most of the plot, and rushing the Justice League. I’m in the middle where I learned to appreciate it overtime and it will make sense when you go to Snyder’s version of Justice League.

The Amazing Webhead

I want to discuss Ben’s version of Bruce. He’s a subject of mix views. People didn’t like that he’s an even darker version of the character that kills. I never like that aspect either but for a story perspective, we saw a version of Batman that did fell into the abyss that “I am Knight” in BTAS talked about. As you saw, in this universe, Joker killed Robin and that event made Bruce angry/jaded for a while. Snyder even implied that Bruce and Selina were married for years but the death of Robin made him push her out of his life. Basically he lost hope. (Had we got a Ben Affleck Batman movie, we would had seen all that.) Clark & Zod’s fight and Lex’s manipulation only made it worse with Bruce fearing that Clark could turn on humanity and no one will stop him. That’s something that the comics addressed where Bruce always sees Clark as his best friend and cares for the other heroes in the League but knowing Bruce’s mindset, he has trust issues with everyone & even himself that there’s that concern that any hero can turn on the world. I say this because I like Ben’s arc about learning to trust Superman, see him as a good man, and Clark’s sacrifice to stop Doomsday inspired him to give him hope and be the Batman we all know and love again. :)

Matthew Periolat

They didn’t earn it, that’s my biggest criticism of the movie. With only one movie (Man of Steel) working as support, they jammed a second Man of Steel, a first Batman, a Dark Knight Returns AND a Superman: Doomsday into ONE movie. I’m amazed it didn’t rupture on release from the overpacking. It was too much too soon. In other bad news, as we mentioned on Discord, Eisenberg’s performance as Luthor is… disturbing and not in a good way. Luthor is evil, but not manic and it feels WAY too close to saying “Neurodivergent = evil” to make me happy. So aside from all that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play? I absolutely love Amy Adams as Lois. I said it back in Man of Steel, it might honestly be my favorite take on the character. She suffers no fools, smart as a whip, brave as hell and… dare I say makes Lois kind of sexy? Love her. And then there’s Gal Gadot as Diana… she’s great and the reveal with the guitar riffs is absolutely the highlight of the movie for me. If only they hadn’t SPOILED IT IN THE FRICKIN’ TRAILER. Seriously, she’s another gem in this mess. And there’s one more thing important to me personally in the movie that I will always smile over as it corrects an oversight long overdue - the credit in the opening: “Batman created by Bob Kane with Bill Finger”. To make a long story short, Bob Kane had always taken solo credit for creating Batman and had always gotten it. Truth is Bill Finger is very much responsible for the look of Batman as well as creations on Catwoman and The Joker. Kane had always gotten solo credit until this movie when finally, Bill got his due. If you have Hulu, I cannot recommend Batman and Me as a documentary on the subject highly enough. Creators rights first and remember, never too late for truth, justice and what is right to prevail.

Mage Reacts

I'm sad we didn't get that solo movie!! It would've been so good, esp the stuff with Selina and Robin

LankyRambo

The Death of Superman was my first DC comic run back when I was... 8? My aunt got me a collection for Christmas. Probably too young in hindsight, but it sure kickstarted my love for comics! "Zack Snyder's Justice League" is another LONG one (4 hours!) but they made the breaks easy for you by chaptering it! Loved the reaction! Agree with the odd plot choices... I really wonder how much of it was Zack Snyder's original vision and how much was the Studio forcing him into certain plot points (Man of Steel did well, bring in Batman! They've gotta fight!)

LankyRambo

Also, there are a few good "Start of the Justice League" stories to watch. The 2001 Animated show is loved, Justice League: War is pretty good for a later canon adaption (and kicks off the whole DCAMU).

Chess Red Eagle

I think Webhead and Lorenzo said most of what I was going to say in terms of people not liking how Bruce/Batman. They just generally don't like darker versions of Batman that doesn't have a huge issue killing even though there have been multiple versions of this exact kind of Batman in the comics before that have generally been well received. They also don't like how "easily" the worlds greatest detective was being fooled by Lex but as I said, I think Webhead and Lorenzo covered this well. He's not "prime" batman. He's succumbed far more to depression and hatred and had lost a lot of his moral compass by this point in his life and Lex preyed on that weakness of his. The whole point is that he regained some of his previous hope. Lex's portrayal is easily the most disliked part of the movie. I get that they were trying to do something different instead of yet another Lex that's cold, calm, and calculating and have him be half insane while still smart and manipulative but I think the combination of Jesse's performance and the writing just came across as way too much. It didn't help that people just can't buy such a goofy actor like him to actually be a convincing Lex. The vanilla movie also cut out a lot of smaller scenes that added a lot of context to the overall plot threads in the movie so it seemed WAY more disconnected than it is here. I enjoyed your reaction a ton and can't wait for you to get to some other DC projects.

Anthony Jackson

Do you plan on watching Snyder cut Justice league? Def 100x better than the theatrical it’s basically a different movie!

HeroesKey

Yeah everyone in the comments and even you Meg at the end are saying basically what I was gonna say about this movie. The casting was fine for this movie, except for Jesse as Lex. I know they wanted to try something different but he didn't at all come off as Lex to me. You're right that this movie felt like it was going through an identity crisis because they were trying to cram in other stories from the comics. The Dark Knight Returns, for one, was a major inspiration for this as Snyder has mentioned how much he loves that comic. You can tell by Batfleck's suit how similar it is to the one in the actual comic where he's got a bulkier physique and even the bigger suit he uses to fight Superman is identical to the one in the comics. Though to be honest, I've never liked the Dark Knight Returns design itself at all. The more bulky Batsuit and small ears on the cowl was something I was never a fan of. But besides that, I do like Batfleck's suit since it's probably the closest to a comic accurate suit. And while I get that his version of Batman is much more jaded and angry and doesn't really follow his moral code anymore, I kind of wish we got to actually see how he became like that. I also agree that I didn't like how Bruce seemed easily manipulated by Lex into killing Superman. Considering this version of Batman has been doing this for 20 years, I would think that he would've done more research and be able to deduce Lex's lies and manipulation with the years of experience he has. I also agree that Ben Affleck was a tremendous cast for Batman/Bruce Wayne. I just didn't really like some of the writing for his version. Though I think Ben acted fine as both Batman and Bruce Wayne. The other comic that they crammed into the movie was The Death of Superman, where Doomsday "kills" Superman. Personally, I wouldn't have mind if they followed the Death of Superman story from the comics had we gotten a Man of Steel 2 and basically gotten to know more about Superman and his relationship with Lois, his co-workers at the Daily Planet, and with the other members of the Justice League first. It would've been so much more impactful since we'd feel more connected to him, instead of just killing him off in the second movie. Regardless, I did really love the music, the visuals, and the Warehouse fight scene is probably still the best Batman fight scene in live action. And I do think this was a good introduction to the Trinity before we get to the formation of the Justice League. I also just find it kind of funny that of all the movies you've seen so far, any of them that have Batman and Superman interacting with each other, have them either fighting each other or being hostile toward each other. And while in most iterations they are hesitant about each other in the beginning, they do grow to respect and even be inspired by each other. And even when they argue and disagree on things, they're still best friends and understand why each of them think the way they do. That's why it makes me so excited for you to eventually see that side of their friendship eventually with the other movies and shows. But yeah another great reaction and I also appreciate you giving us a marathon of DC reactions with the last 3 reactions being BTAS and now this, especially since I know you've got reactions for other shows and movies to get to. Really appreciate it I believe the next DCEU movie is Suicide Squad 2016. So interested to see what you think of that movie as well. Also hope people in the comments will be nice when you post the edited version of this on youtube and if there are any rude comments then I have to hope that they aren't community members and are just random viewers trolling or not understanding your thoughts on the movie. Since as you said there are some people who are very passionate over some things and take things way too seriously. So hopefully there won't be many of those people in the comments

Brodie Vickers

Never seen this or the original Suicide Squad for that matter, mainly just because I heard they were awful haha. Caught the ol' bug yesterday and confined to bed, not my favourite way to start the new year lol, but hopefully this will take my mind off it🤒Believe it or not, when he was 1st introduced back in the 30's Batman had no qualms when it came to taking a life: Punching a man into an acid vat, burning a man to death, snapping a man's neck, hanging a giant by the neck from the Batplane "He's probably better off this way." those early Bat Books were fuckin' brutal😂Out of curiosity, have you gotten into The Death of Superman book yet? verrrry different compared to this adaptation. Senator Finch was played by Holly Hunter, who was also Elastigirl in The Incredibles, unmistakable voice. Commenting on that first scene, all those people going by, and nobody noticed that dude trapped out in the open? He's RIGHT THERE😄maybe it was because of all the dust.. Now you've seen the movie, watch the HISHE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTuyfQ5CR4Q I think you'll ❤️ this one too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOQxxNYSHR0

Brodie Vickers

Yeah I don't know where the Lex part of the story came from, might have just been put together for the movie. But it definetly had influence from Dark Knight Rises and Death of Superman.

Brodie Vickers

You must watch the Adam West movie too, that's going to be a lot of fun!

Frankie H

Correct Meg, Lex was getting the branded criminals murdered in prison setting up Batman for the blame. Lex also set up Superman framing him, faking evidence, having his mercenaries burn people to make it look like Superman used his heat vision to burn those people at the start. They did not explain that well. I loved that Lex's scheme to frame the heroes, hated Lex's portrayal. Lex is so disturbing and off putting. I think Lex should be confident and imposing, not a creepy tech bro. But I enjoyed 70%-80% of this movie. It's okay but it's too rushed, too many separate comic storylines crammed into one film. Also another reason for Batman's irrational fear of Superman I think comes from his traumatic nightmare, the post-apocalyptic nightmare. Which might have been more than a nightmare. Also post-apocalyptic batman suit goes hard, love the trench coat. The action figure is called Knightmare batman by the way.

Brian Kickass

I like that Adam west suggestion. Feels like it’s a good time. Get re-centered, or not. Then maybe rewatch the gray ghost episode and make all of the connections in the show and in real life. And if you didn’t know, the mad bomber was Bruce timm and even voiced by Bruce timm. Goes beyond any multiverse parallel relation or time travel hiccup. So crazy that it’s totally sane and more based in reality than real live action people you see daily

Rob Dn

Spot on Meg, I think this movie and its cast had huge potential but there are glaring flaws in it. Mainly the script and 1 casting decision which you also nailed. I have huge problems with the initial premise and motivations for the characters and how it brings them into conflict. Also keep in mind this is the Ultimate Edition; the theatrical release was in my opinion even harder to follow since the story seems to juggle too many things at once. For instance, it makes sense that Superman and Batman initially might be inclined to not trust one another since on the surface it seems they don’t share a lot in common. This aspect is frequently explored in other iterations, however in this interpretation you also noted how jarring it is when they become “friends”. Jesse Eisenberg as Lex Luthor is so out of place it’s uncomfortable sitting through scenes with him. Like you said, in this movie he’s essentially playing the Riddler (which would’ve been great honestly). The DCAU version of him is probably the best interpretation of Lex outside of the comics, followed very closely by Michael Rosenbaum’s in Smallville for live action performances. Batman killing indiscriminately also did not sit well with several upon this film’s release. While he has been shown to do it in some incarnations, Snyder goes out of his way to show him blowing away every thug possible in this movie. The idea that Joker killing a Robin is the reason why he goes down that path to me is a very weak argument that falls apart the moment you realize that several of Batman’s rogues gallery are still alive (he hints this in the end so not a spoiler). It is not characteristic of Batman to indiscriminately kill random thugs/mercs who have not traumatized or put Batman in emotional duress to intentionally get him to break his one rule. Despite it all Ben Affleck delivers a solid performance as shown by his dedication to the role, the amazing shape he got into and how excited he was to play character, since early 2000s after playing Daredevil. Unfortunately I think several (including myself at the time) linked Batman’s characterization to Affleck’s performance, which was not his fault. Henry Cavill was Superman, and it’s a shame he got a raw deal when it came to the script written for him, he’s even gone on interviews telling fans he would’ve wanted to play a more hopeful and positive Clark. Zack I think doesn’t understand the character, as he’s gone on in interviews sharing a somewhat mocking disdain for many things in the Superman mythos (Jimmy Olsen for instance). The Dark Knight Returns and the Death of Superman were not the comics to adapt for setting up Batman and Superman’s first meeting. Henry had real passion for the character and I wish we could’ve seen a more pure interpretation of him as a matured and wise Superman making individual people’s lives better (All-Star Superman). Sorry for the very long post, but looking forward to your reactions in the upcoming DCAU. Bruce Tim’s world I believe is the gold standard for everything DC outside of the comics. WB should’ve simply adapted the blueprint from that universe if they were wanting to compete with the MCU