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Tactics Talk - Defining Progress (Patreon)

Published:
2024-11-01 18:00:11
Imported:
2026-06
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Downloads

  • TT Progress.mp3

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Content

Adam and Ally return to take a look at how football clubs define progress and how we could link this back to Rangers (theoretically!).

Topics covered include:

  • Importance of performance vs results

  • Combinations & Relationships

  • Individual Player Improvements

  • Separating player value from team results

Files

Previews only

Comments

Jim McCutcheon

Thanks guys i really enjoy this pod very interesting discussions on all aspects of the club 👍

Jamiedfa

Brilliant once again, some good points made

Hendi

On the lack of physicality: there is not a massive difference that can be made to that (without steroids). It's difficult enough to build mass and strength, when that's the sole focus of your training. Footballers have so many other competing athletic demands on them, that the best you can hope for over the course of a season is a small improvement in younger players. There's a genetic component as well - Barron is never going to have the physical strength of Yaya You're. As for buying players physically capable for this league? We are shopping in the bargain basement, we need to make trade offs. If we buy physical players, then there's a trade off with their technical ability. Technical improvement is also limited, you can improve it, but not much. Scott Wright would never be David Ginola, regardless of how much time he spent working on that aspect. Technically inferior players have limited capacity for improvment or resale value. Which means the Scottish league is about their limit. So that doesn't contribute to ongoing financial stability. Finally, you do acknowledge this, but it's an important point. If we play twice a week and Aberdeen play once. Then we have 2 days we don't train because we are playing; they have 1. We have 2 recovery days; they have 1. We have 2 light days working on shape; they have 1. That's half a week, every week, we aren't able to work specifcally on embedding those patterns of play we want to see. So only logical that Aberdeen would develop them quicker.

Stace1ofthePeople
>>154110761

That's a really good point. I think also though we need to stop spending money on lightweight players and or so many project players when you are right we dont have time to develop in the gym howeverthey surely gain experience by playing more. You're right about barron he is a wee guy but tbh he's probably the least lightweight player in the team because he has a lot of fight in him and doesn't shy away from anything. Diomande for example who I do rate although he needs to get better, weve paid 4.5m for I think, hoping to develop and resell. if we've no trophies we aren't selling anyone for a decent fee let's face it. We signed propper, arguably should have signed mckenna. We signed dessers , could have signed shankland for example. Not saying these players are the be all and end all but an example of what we could have signed, more physical and in tune with scottish football. We seemed to have signed projects and also on top of that light weights when we really need a balance. We've got the balance wrong.

Adam Thornton
>>154110761

We’ve spent 40-45m in four transfer windows. That’s not bargain basement. For that spend we should be able to afford well rounded players regardless of where we play. Plenty of clubs manage it on lesser budgets. Also, not sure where the Aberdeen comparison came from but it’s not really valid. It would be valid if no other club with similar resources playing in Europe was capable of training players - but that doesn’t stand up to any kind of scrutiny. Adam

Hendi
>>154110761

And we've already established and long since accepted that our recruitment, prior to Koppen coming in was disastrous, so it's irrelevant to the future of the manager. It's done. That takes time to be undone. I'm talking here and now, current set up. We have had to replace almost an entire team, whilst reducing the wage bill. Jefte, Bajrami, Barron look decent. A few less so. But a 50% strike rate in the transfer market is about as good as anyone can hope for, even Sir Alex didn't do better than that.

David Clapperton

I can’t get my head around why we keep asking Dessers to be our sole outball and play up there alone and isolated. He can’t do it! I know he’s not a great footballer and will probably never be good enough for the level we want to be at, but in my level headed moments when I’ve calmed down after games where he’s had yet another horror show, I still think I want to be fair to him and reserve some sort of judgement on him until I see him as a “poacher” in a 2 striker set up. It’s not fair telling a guy that to do something he clearly isn’t good at and doesn’t like doing and then slaughtering him for not being good at. It’s like getting a plumber to fix your lights then complaining that your house is in darkness.

Callum

Really enjoyed this. I do think there are signs of progress in patterns of play, and you’ve explained it well. Without a decent centre forward and a 10 we’re always going to massively struggle … it doesn’t really matter who the manager is, it’s impossible in the modern game. We just can’t hold the ball up against even average CBs. The wingers are also out muscled consistently Cerny, McCausland. Put a young Morelos in that team I truly believe it would transform everything. 3-5-2 might work better but who are the 2 up top going to be… we don’t have 1 never mind 2.

Hendi
>>154110761

Also, on the final point, how many of these other clubs of similar stature, that are doing well, are operating without a CEO? Permanent Chairman or any other basic footballing structure?

Andrew Lees

Excellent pod. Share lots of Adam's general frustration but really liked the honesty of Ally in his assessment of our players valuation.

Fraser T8

Fabulous again. Very measured and thoughtful. Good point re mismanagement of Dessers. He is what he is but to my mind is unfairly the brunt of a lot of anger. The fact he’s the best forward at the club is not his fault. I can just about accept a project with signs of improvement but there are none. A better coach gets far more out of these players.

Graeme Homer

Firstly turn your phone eh! It’s annoying listening with the pinging going off. On Igamane is the perfect profile player we are after and the reason we got him is we get him now or we don’t get him at all. Now if we don’t get him and he hits his potential then we have the usual moaning for not getting him. So do we want the trading model and the potential players or do we what Beale did? Size of the player really doesn’t matter the ability and mentality is more important as if size was so important Messi, Xavi, Modric, Yamal and so on wouldn’t be the best players in the world. Our best players are the slightest like Raskin, Barron, Dio. I do love a back 3 but we don’t have the cb’s for it. I’d rather go what we had under Gerrard. Butland Tav Souttar Nana Jefte Barron Raskin Dio Hagi/Cerny Bajrami Igamane

David Baillie

Would someone/anyone from the H&H team who go to the pressers please ask the manager who is responsible for the set piece drills. Whoever it is has failed miserably under his watch. Both in an attacking and defensive context. This also applies to throw ins.

David Baillie

Your comments on the physicality aspect are spot on. You can see it, we as a fanbase can see it why can’t the manager. We’re a soft touch and every hammer thrower in the league can bully us.

Graeme Homer
>>154200847

Sterling is a crock, Nana is needed more at CB as Balogun and Propper aren’t the answer. Who else is there McKinnon, Devine or Wylie?

Spoon

Gents while I enjoy the pod and chat, I think it’s being over complicated at times. We need to be solid in defence with the base level (at least) of physicality that this league demands. We need a midfield that far my dynamic forward and back with much more dig that we currently have . We need a forward line that is in the box far quicker and in more numbers, we also need more clinical strikers and I would argue to be 442 for at least domestic football, we get nowhere near enough bodies in the box and our delivery from wide is too slow or poor. This isn’t rocket science and it’s what the most successful teams have been built on. There is always space for the odd flair player but in general terms I want the industry and dig back into the team that’s been missing for about a decade to return. I would take issue with the comment around its easy to be defensively solid in this league, I would certain challenge that it follows those who do offer nothing going forward. I assume that’s a pointed remark at the interest many fans have in getting in McInnes. It’s true a lot of teams set up to play on the break but most do it far better than we do. It’s true that some managers in the league like to keep it tight and nick something if they can. What’s also true is that when not playing the OF sides can and do play some decent attacking stuff, if the other league managers had our resources and the level of players we should be able to attract I’m not sure they don’t improve on their systems. To be honest I would love us to have gone back to defence first, be utterly miserly in giving up chance and then fixed things in midfield and forward as a follow on. The season we won was based on clean sheets and not giving chances far more than it was on scoring goals. Our battling performances in Europe where we seemed to constantly down to 10 or even 9 were based on giving teams nothing to take heart from, we broke them mentally then snatched things. In Scotland that is an effective blueprint, especially when you should also be able to have the quality in your team others just can’t get close to. Alan Hansen, if you believe him, used to talk about every goal as if it was an avoidable defensive mistake, never a good goal or attack. I get that tactics are indeed a key part of modern football but the right players, the right balance, the right coaching and instruction for me is far more important, especially when a league has its own established nuances you can’t control or negate through set up alone. What I feel now is that Clements tactics won’t work here, not only is he using the wrong ethos and set up he has consistently bought the wrong type of player, he clearly isn’t or can’t get his message across and he refuses to adapt to what everyone bar he can see. I want a break from inverted full backs, I don’t care about false 9s and half spaces, I’m not interested in possession stats or Xg etc just let’s get set up 442, get in solid, driven, hard working players from Scottish league as a core with a few specialists to give us the sparkle. It’s time to go back to being solid, being hard (within the rules of the game) and demanding people work hard back and forward. To get the better of Scottish teams you need to win the midfield and get bodies in the box or break quickly. We don’t, we overplay, ask a 9 to go up against 4 big lads or we fanny about overpassing constantly letter the opponents filter back into shape and the chance is gone. The delivery from wide is woeful and we rarely find a man, it’s time to stop it. I would still take a Shankland, a McLean a Miller who were discussed in the summer. The lightweight insipid nature of our signings is disgraceful and we just aren’t getting football or monetary value from them.