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Roundtable - Hampden Heartache (Patreon)

Published:
2024-12-16 07:00:05
Imported:
2026-06
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Content

Simon and Zander discuss Sunday's league cup final and the loss on penalties to the other half of the Old Firm. 

They also look back at the Europa League match with Spurs and ahead to the forthcoming few weeks domestic football as well as analysing the upcoming needs for the transfer window.

Files

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Comments

KennyY

I hope that the last few performances mean that the Clement out brigade button it for a few months and give this man the chance to work and develop these players and any new additions in January. Everyone entitled to their own opinion of course but you have to be fairly blinkered if you can’t see the improvement recently. I have to be honest and say that I have been pretty negative regarding Hagi in the last months and am happy to admit that I’ve been wrong. He has been excellent last few games. Yes it’s another old firm defeat but one we didn’t deserve. We outplayed them for large periods and deserved to win.

Steven

Putting a lot of blame on Dessers lads. For all we know they practiced pens and those guys were the top 5

Elaine Campbell
>>158417444

But we didn't win. It's yet another defeat. I don't know what the answer is and I'm not disagreeing with you in terms of giving the manager a chance, but I still feel a culture of "2nd is good enough" or "we outplayed them and didn't deserve to lose" is becoming prevalent. We outplayed then and didn't deserve to lose the 2019 final. Have we moved on from there? We sit today now on the cusp of yet another "new dawn" as the new Chairman and CEO start today, to hopefully take us down a brighter path. I sincerely hope they do and they utterly rid the us of the seemingly ingrained losers mentality, before it's too late. If it isn't already.

Stace1ofthePeople

Scunnered. Yet another we were 'good/unlucky/deserved to win 'but lost game. Can't fault the teams efforts really or PC. Think we gave it our all and were dead on our feet in ET. Thursday clearly took it out the team and no surprise there. Bench killed us, no quality/ depth coming off the bench. Dessers and dowell were massive downgrades. Again we are now without matondo, cortes, Lawrence soutar and balogun. Too many important players missing which is leaving us with lesser options and having to play people out of position etc. we need to back the team and back PC by giving him more quality additions to work with.No manager is gonna come in and start winning titles without any hiccups or bumps. That being said it all came down to penalty kicks but out of 5 we shouldn't be missing any. Sick of saying it but we need a captain who's gonna grab the game and players by ths scruff of the neck, round up the players and be at the ref.t many of us wont like to admit it but imagine we had a mcgregor type captain in the middle of the pitch for us . Guarantee we would be on more points than we are. I like tav as a player but him as a captain is part of the issue. And so the heartache continues....

Stace1ofthePeople
>>158417444

We've not moved on since 2019. No chance. We've turned over far too many managers, opportunities to win trophies and been run like a bowling club. The squad has potential and I'm up for backing the team and clement but in no way shape or form do we have a better squad than we did in 2019. We are in a constant 'rebuild' or turnover phase with no proof we are going anywhere because we have no trophies to show for it.

John Calder

Guys enjoy your posts on the game and a fair amount of your comments about what we need to do are on the mark. However no mention of Kuhn's trip on Diomande which allowed him to score the third goal. Also Beaton's refusal to implement rules regarding the Celtic's goalkeeper encroachment during the penalties also the imbalance in booking. The officials cost us the game today

stefan strzelecki

Well done for putting this pod together guys, it must have been torture. I think the fine minutiae of the match seems of secondary concern this morning. The institutional bias from the use of Var , to benefit “ cektic’ has virtually robbed the club of the trophy . This must be pursued , using the very best sports litigation that can be found. The entire value and integrity of football is being compromised by entrenched individuals , employed by the governing body. I don’t believe it’s only negligence , there is volumes of evidence , that leads to the only logical conclusion of systemic bias in their favour. The fine margins of the match, embolden their players through every facet of the match, when they witness officials aiding them. It likely even helped their confidence during pens. Everything else regarding these matches seems peripheral, to the obstacle of corruption , influencing these games .

Hendi

Takes more of a man to admit he's no feeling confident on the day and put the team before himself. And why would you expect him to be confident when hes been mocked and criticised since he signed?

Hendi
>>158417444

No proof we are improving? You don't think Jefte, Raskin, Igamane have the potential to generate significant returns on investment? Might not be improving at the pace people want, but anyone claiming there are no signs of potential is choosing not to see them.

Zander Staff
>>158417859

I understand your logic Steven, but if we had practiced taking penalties, and Dessers was so poor at them that Butland, our goalkeeper, was taking one before him, then I would suggest that raises more questions about Dessers’ ability. Dessers has also taken a penalty for us already, Morton, and scored it.

Scott Tolmie
>>158417859

Can you imagine if he was the one that missed all you would have heard would be why did he take one, you can't win

Colin Mathie
>>158417444

Their first job should be giving Clement his jotters, i want him gone, this week, yes i know its not happening, but this failure to beat that lot after 6 or 7 attempts should be enough to see him fired imo.

Elaine Campbell
>>158417444

And having listened to the pod in full. How many times was the phrase "take our second place back" used? I'll give the guys the benefit of the doubt, since it's just after a gutting defeat, and I am very grateful for all the pods since yesterday and the catharsis they bring. But the language at times did just serve to illustrate my point. "Our second place" should just never be in our vocabulary, I'm sorry.

Stace1ofthePeople
>>158417444

How many trophies have we lost since then? This team has quality and potential but you can't say we have improved since 2019. We are just in a different situation. Until we start winning trophies on a regular basis we arent improving just changing circumstances in my opinion. Jefte raskin and igamane have heaps of potential to generate significant returns but will the club actually do that? Or will we just continue on the road we are on which is being close but not close enough and not managing contracts and generating money of players properly? We had peak kent morelos etc and failed to get money, sure different people in charge but at this point we have no proof itll be different. Yes we have made some incriminatal improvements and definitely playing better football over the last few weeks but again as I said nothing to show for it . We made a huge improvement bringing the wage bill and age down but at the detriment of not being settled enough and losing so many points it's leaving us without another challenge for the league trophy. So again I find it difficult to say we are any further forward than we were in 2019.

Greg

Wait, so you wanted dessers to take a penalty? Absolutely amazing stuff, it's actually incredible the desperation to make so much of this game about dessers.

Simon H&H
>>158418729

You are right John, sorry. It was a foul in the build up. Had recorded last night around 8:30 after just getting in. I’ll absolutely go into more details on next Mondays show on VAR in Scotland in general. I’d imagine we might see a fall out this week for sure

Simon H&H
>>158420167

So he wasn’t an absolute farce after coming on, despite being one of the freshest legs on the pitch? Done nothing but hamper us and allowed Celtic control due to the press being ineffective from his lead up top. He has scored penalties before for us, it’s not rocket science. You either score or miss. But you never, ever shirk responsibility as a Rangers number 9, despite how rotten you are. terrible football player, with a rotten attitude and the sooner he’s away. The better.

John Calder

Cheers Simon for the reply and I appreciate that it was done just after you got in. There have just been too many "Honest Mistakes" for it to be a coincidence. I think we should employ an recently retired ex ref , not Scottish as they would try to highlight any decisions he may have made in our games to review most likely English, to review all our games from now on and be in the SFA'S Faces after every game. I expect the Board to go full out on this and demand a meeting to why all the officials did not apply the rules . Sorry for the rant

Scott Tolmie
>>158420167

I would have expected danilo to sit on McGregor and he didn't, that was either the managers fault or the players, that's why they got so much control

Colin Gardner
>>158417859

Steven if a £4 million striker isn't good enough to score from 12 yards then he shouldn't be at our club.

Colin Gardner
>>158417444

Behave Colin. Did you want him sacked after Thursday? No didn't think so. Losing on pens isn't Clements fault christ!

Zander Staff
>>158417444

You’re right Elaine, “our second place” was poor wording from myself. I more so meant that Aberdeen should not be ahead of us, and we must push ahead of them to try and catch our rivals. Poor wording from myself though as I say

Simon H&H
>>158417444

Zander just meant in terms of getting back ahead of Aberdeen was all I took from that. Not an acceptance. Aim for overtaking them, then we move on as much as we can domestically and eat into the 11 point lead

Graeme Guthrie
>>158420167

His penalty record is 13 scored in 17, more than good enough to strike one. Not taking one as our main striker is shirking his duty imo

James McSween

We are going nowhere under Clement. Still not won a big domestic must win game apart from last season LC final that he was only just in the door.

SDF
>>158420167

A £4.5m striker on £25,000 a week who allows a left back and a goalkeeper to go ahead of him in a shoot out is absolutely no use to us. When we needed Dessers to step up for us the most, he hid. He should never kick another ball for us and his agent should be told to find him a new club ASAP.

Hendi
>>158418752

What bearing does your wage have on your mental state? Seems to be that he did his job, he wasn't in the correct frame of mind so he let someone in a better frame step up.

BlueJay

Fair play for putting this out guys after such a massive boot in the stones for us. Our poor decision making in attack, dodgy officiating, and running out of gas were our downfall. The one main thing we can take is that the team finally showed they have belief they can beat them.

SDF
>>158418752

If he's not in the correct frame of mind then he shouldn't be on the pitch in the first place. You can't just pick and choose which bits of the job you fancy doing when it suits you.

Kev Armstrong
>>158418752

As a striker going on in ET you prob assume you will be going to take a pen. And should want to take a pen. Ally Boyd Novo Miller Do you see any of them saying I don’t fancy taking one? All took abuse from the support. Miller and McCoist took far more than dessers ever did.

Hendi
>>158418752

If Aaron Ramsay had done the same we'd maybe have another European trophy under our belt. "I was essentially brought on to take a penalty, which I'm not sure is the best idea. That played out on my mind as I went to take it, instead of being clear about where I wanted to put it"

Ross Mcewab

I’m losing my mind with the Diomande praise. Has anyone spent one moment watching his play off the ball? The number of rebounds or second chances we lose out on because he’s too lazy to get there is incredible. He’s the laziest player on the park, constantly walking in defence.

Andy mccrorie

The reason var didn’t check the penalty was that it was Frank the Wank on VAR , gives us nothing EVER regardless of wether running the line or VAR . Blatant cheat of an official

Rona Bluebell

I’m glad I’m at work as it stops me curling up into a ball and rocking back and forth while giving a low moan akin to a wounded animal. How you find the energy to do this pod is astounding. A painful day indeed. 💙

Simon H&H
>>158418752

He’s an abject disgrace. Simple as that. No point defending him. A Rangers number 9 shirking his responsibility should never, ever wear the shirt again.

Hendi
>>158418752

A disgrace is a player turning up to training pished and fat, not returning from international duty on time etc like his predecessor... Dessers has done as well as he can with the talent he has. Cant ask for anything more from any human being. He's been subjected to ridicule since the moment he arrived and the worst interpretation applied to every action. Rarely been given any "suppprt" so absolutely no surprise his confidence and self belief is rock bottom. That doesn't make him a "disgrace", it makes him a human being.

Ryan McMillan
>>158418752

Comparing a guy who won the lottery after growing up in a tin shed favela to a guy who seems comfortable enough to not get carried away is some stretch. P.S. He’s no gonna shag yae

Simon H&H
>>158417859

Can’t compare the two. One was good enough for Rangers, the other wasn’t.

Ryan McMillan
>>158418752

About as class as trying to bring down our Euro top goalscorer in trying to defend a fucking coward.

Hendi
>>158418752

I don't need to "bring him down", he managed that all by himself with his piss poor professionalism.

Ryan McMillan
>>158418752

Ironic that you’ve used mental state in your Dessers argument but don’t consider it when dragging Alfie’s conduct into it

Kev Armstrong
>>158418752

Taking everything else away from the discussion I still believe that a striker (who was our main striker for most of the season) that has hit penalties for us before and had not long come off the bench should have been taking a pen before our backup left back who is terrible at shooting and a goalie.

Alec Anderson

I can't believe the penalty wasn't discussed.

jason hart

I don't know lads I'd be a little more critical of dio for the scums 3rd .. just sitting on his arse as ball get cut back

Andy MacArthur

Painful day, still can’t believe we didn’t get what our performance deserved. Robbed by poor officiating once again. This pattern of assistance nonsense that lot go on about has put an unconscious bias in the minds of refs. Easier to not give us a pen review when they consider the East end meltdown if it was given. On a positive note, other than other CBs and GK that was a young vibrant team, with lots of potential to grow. When we get a few more players back from injury and a decent Jan transfer window we will be in good shape. I’m now completely behind the manager and his vision for the team. Onwards and upwards!

Zander Staff
>>158428199

The Cerny incident do you mean? We discuss that closer to the end of the pod mate.

Elaine Campbell
>>158417444

Fair enough guys, like I say, I know it's initial reaction stuff and I'm always grateful for the content.

Jim Milne
>>158417859

Morelos missed a penalty that the captain should have pulled rank for. He took the penality after missing the weekends training and showing up late the day before the final. Dessers wouldn't have taken a penalty in normal time, and Alfie at least had the balls to take the penalty. He might have missed, but he still took it which is what I expect from a #9.

Jim Milne
>>158417444

I called for Clement's head 7 weeks ago but let's examine some facts. 1. He's spent close to £20m 2. He was 11 pts behind and in 3rd after losing to Aberdeen. 3. His football was atrocious to watch. 4. His tactics before Igamane was fit were terrible. Playing a system for wingers with NO wingers. 5. He talked absolute shit for a month. 6. Players in this squad have a history of turning on form and getting results once they're behind in the league. Only to shit the bed when they play them. He won't be fired, and in truth he probably does deserve the rest of the season but a couple good performances which ended up with 1 point in Europe and no cup isn't exactly progress. Gio got to a European final and was binned for less

Spoon
>>158418752

Hendi, spot on bud. Kev I do take your point however you’re taking all the agency away from the guys who hit the pens. We have no idea what the running order is that’s been decided beforehand or on the day who wanted to take them, what the discussion were and if the rest of the team wanted those 5 to hit them what were those not picked expected to do, start a fight? You could well be right about people stepping back but equally only 5 at a time can step forward does that make the other 6 cowards or duds? Is the pecking order strikers then attackers, midfielders then defenders and keepers last ? That’s both unrealistic and misses the point. People are raging but can’t blame the team or manager so need a focal point. Dessers all season has taken flak and is hated by many, nothing he can do is right, he has been ridiculed, slated, publicly booed but on the one day he isn’t actually materially involved in anything controversial…..people are manufacturing it. Nobody tells me that we win the shoot out and anyone gives a monkeys about who took the pens or scored. If two missed and we win the shoot out 3-2 nobody cares. Dessers is the definition of a scapegoat. For me, he has done a huge amount of heavy lifting when it comes to blame in this team and the focus on him has let many others slide. You have to wonder what fans want from him now, they despise him, hate to see him play but still expect him to be loving Rangers and bursting his hump ? Have you ever worked for an employer that made it clear you weren’t wanted and the don’t want you there, can’t be pleasant and what loyalty does it promote ? I find myself agreeing with the majority of stuff you say bud, on this it’s just smoke and mirrors it means nothing other than giving those who detest Dessers the validation of ‘see I told you he’s shite’ he didn’t even take a penalty….no he didn’t but he didn’t miss either. I know what one of those I prefer, if you can be objective I think so would you. Not being able to control large parts of the game cost us, players being gassed (and no wonder) after 70 minutes cost us, slow to sub when players were out on their feet cost us, the striker looking a bit isolated again cost us, poor decision making with the final ball cost us, not adapting to them changing shape in the second half cost us, offering little threat from 90 to 120 cost us. The guy nobody likes not taking a penalty didn’t cost us anything on the day, no amount of projection or spin around that changes that. If someone doesn’t like Dessers that’s their prerogative but the scapegoating stuff is transparent. Enjoy your stuff as always Kev, just a difference of opinion on this one.

Gary Shaw

Forget all the penalty talk for a minute, bottom line is he has to be one of the worst Rangers centre forwards ever….He genuinely wouldn’t have looked out of place in the 3rd division team

Simon Lewandowski

lots of talk about Dessers not taking a penalty and I agree it's a disgrace but a bigger concern for me was our keepers shocking attempts at saving their penalties he never looked like saving one..to be honest for four of them he just flopped to the ground I never felt confident we would save one with him in there

Spoon

I like a lot of the squad and see great potential, but will this manager get it from them, I have serious doubts. The board putting better transfers at his disposal is a baseline, what he does with them is on him. Don’t think they were particularly good yesterday but for large parts of the game we were pegged back or struggled to build to create quality chances. Back to an isolated front man, one who sadly had expended a hell of a lot of energy midweek and looked tired in his defence. Not as convinced as others that other than the score at 90 much changed yesterday. We play relatively well and still come up short is the end result. The idea the next game means anything is being quite overblown. Taking three points off a team out of sight already isn’t the ringing endorsement for me as it is to others. Win games against them when it matters and I will acknowledge progress. Flip the question is the mood so buoyant if he strikes out again next game or doesn’t get full points from Dundee ? Suspect we are a bit better off than many thought we might be at this point given the Europa game but there are still huge issues in set up and squad. Barron who was fresh not being rotated in was a bizarre decision when we had guys out on their feet, why didn’t Danilo start to give energy and maybe swap Hagi in when they were tired etc Phil convinced many he was changing things, not sure he really is. Time will tell.

Scott Stewart
>>158420167

Danilo scored a wonderful goal!! I Think you need to look at the mistakes rangers made , like Raskins header to balagoun or dessers lack of bottle or even Jeftes performance before Danilo is mentioned in any negativity, not to mention the blanant ref/var cheating !

Spoon
>>158418752

I honestly don’t really blame anyone, on the day the effort was there but we lacked a bit of control and quality when it mattered. I think the set up was a bit cautious and going back a bit to the isolated striker but the team has been through the mill and mostly I just thought our legs went. Reality is though the cup mattered more than the league in terms of banking a trophy and I’m not sure a win next game makes up for that. If we were nil and tuck going top if we won then I could see the excitement but we are only closing a very weighty gap, a little bit.

Kev Armstrong
>>158418752

Had this chat earlier. If we didn’t play spurs on Thursday then we maybe have more legs in ET

Granters

We badly need at least 1 new CH. Possibly 2 given how Souttar never seems too far away from a spell out injured. Should be the absolute priority for the coming window.

Gary Shaw
>>158450435

To be fair,he’s not had many injuries whilst being at us but I agree that we definitely need another proper centre half

Granters
>>158450435

He had about 8 months out just after signing. He’s had lengthy spells out injured at us, Hearts and Dundee Hibs. I really rate him, but there’s no denying he’s injury prone.

Derek Rennie

Regarding Dessers not taking a penalty guys. The manager said that Butland took one as they have been practicing penalties for months, it could be Dessers isn't in the top 5 penalty takers at the club rather than he bottled it. I think throwing things out there on tge Pod like he is a disgrace is uncalled for.

Kris Hendry

The whole Dessers bashing is really worn and tired now guys. Really not something to spend 5-6 minutes talking about at this point

Stephen

A lot of revisionist comments on the team selection. It's not clear why Dessers didn't take a penalty, but by all means jump to conclusions. Yilmaz wasn't as bad as suggested, but the missed penalty seemed to be used in calling out his performance. We were the better team, who made a couple of stupid mistakes to lose goals. I didn't agree with the boys view of the game.

Gary Shaw
>>158450435

I can’t remember him being out for 8 months when he signed mate but I’ll stand corrected 👍

Greg
>>158420167

Sorry supergers seemed I touched a wee nerve, lets hear about signing shankland.

David

Some people desperate to defend dessers, theres no way a goalkeeper should be taking a penalty before your striker, all this talk about him maybe not being confident we paid 4 million for him to step up in these types of matches