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Flagship - The Season in Microcosm (Patreon)

Published:
2023-03-20 17:59:01
Imported:
2026-06
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Content

David welcomes Stevie Clifford of Four Lads Had A Dream to discuss the match against Motherwell at the weekend.

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Comments

Andy sawers

Love the fact that CJ novos pal goggsy has posted from the well boys section and shows that sakala is being played onside by two well players

Bob MacCallum

Sorry, David, but I think you're wrong re why some Gers fans don't rate Tav as highly as you. It's not a generational reason. Few nowadays believe that backs should just defend. I'm ancient so I grew up watching Shearer and Caldow but that changed and developed into the likes of Jardine and Gary Stevens. Later it was Hutton etc. I, like most fans I know, just believe we can do better than Tav - which hopefully we'll see in years to come.

Heart and Hand
>>104496814

I think you’ll see in the future we won’t do anywhere near as good. Hutton is a great example: played incredibly for a year then sold. And neither Stevens nor Hutton put up numbers anywhere in the vicinity of what Tav does, despite playing with better players. Tav isn’t a great defender and for some fans, nothing he does going forward will make up for it.

Bob MacCallum
>>104496814

Tav has the advantage over the guys you mentioned of playing in a system where our backs' starting point is usually on the halfway line. Plus, at Ibrox, teams just have everybody in their own half, most of the game. Stevens and Hutton, unlike Tav, didn't have half the park ahead of them, empty of opponents and thus unopposed till nearer the box.

Russ

The Alexander-Arnold comparison is fair enough but I would say that Trent is a lot easier on they eye than Tav. I'd be happy to still have Tav as our starting right next season but for me he just looks properly gammy when he plays at times, it's like his playing style is the same as his run up for a pen or fk when that movement in general play looks out of place. Maybe I'm harsh though.

Heart and Hand

I still like defenders to defend, I have just had to accept that it no longer seems to be what they’re judged on first.

Gregg
>>104496814

By that logic Barisic and Bassey should have been doing the same numbers the last few years - they are nowhere near it. We have a right back who was top scorer in the Europa league last year and it’s down to a system - deary deary me. Just say you don’t like the guy Bob - I’d have more respect for that tbh.

Bob MacCallum
>>104496814

Barisic isn't a great player in anyone's estimation. Bassey played half a season. How many years has Tav needed to achieve his "numbers" - some in lower division? I don't rate Tav and all my pals who support Gers feel the same. Fed up watching him in every game at Ibrox hitting the 1st defender with a cross or over-hitting it beyond the box 9 times out of 10. We wonder sometimes what some Gers fans think they're watching. How we long for a back who can get near the byeline then cut it low across the box.

Martin Davies

Regarding the offside lines - is the Fir Park slope maybe an explanation of why the lines didn't look right?

Gregg
>>104496814

But you don’t think tav is a great player Bob and bassey just went for c. £20m. Why were they not doing the same numbers if it’s system related? Aye he got numbers in the lower divisions - he also was the top scorer in the Europa league last year. But that doesn’t fit your argument. I do agree about cut backs in fairness - something we should do more of as a team.

Graham McCallum

I don’t want Kent to be with us next season. His numbers over his current contract are nowhere near good enough. If we were to offer him another 4 years at around 2 million a year which is probably our top wage I don’t think that we will get value for money.

Spoon

I am sick of us buying a player who has specific strengths and a clear style then trying to either change them or negate the positives by shoehorning them into a system that doesn’t work or putting them with players that are a bad fit. This ‘chaotic’ rotational front line has moved Colak out of the central berth in the 18 yard box where he was showing himself to be effective to accommodate Kent floating about and achieve very little. My own view is that this is nothingness new from Kent as his output year on year shows, the eye also tells you that he fluffs more than he produces but many seem almost fundamentalist when it comes to his intangible output. We do this far too often, trying to be overly clever with guys who are decent, maybe even better in limited roles, by making them do things they aren’t good at. Colak shouldn’t be under pressure to drop off and link up, he shouldn’t be getting asked to float wide or drift deep just let him get in the box and shoot. He’s one of the few we have who do it. The Motherwell goal that’s a scramble for me showed up Goldson more than anyone else. The defensive rock jumping up and down 10 yards out, marking nobody, having missed the ball when it came in and now watching the striker trying to clear it doing absolutely nothing. This hot on the heels of allowing yet another ball to come all the way across goal for the first tap in. The same guys in this team continue to get the criticism then same guys are let off and their errors ignored. Nothing has changed from the last two or three seasons, huge refresh needed, some real honesty required in terms of ‘star men’ and their real contribution and ffs can we just simplify things and play to our players strengths.

Grant Hoskin

I think the pressure on referees angle is a big part of why Celtic insist in keeping us in this terrible TV deal. By keeping coverage of the game restricted until after Sportscene it lets them control the narrative around every decision. This way the average supporter never sees what they get away with as there’s no coverage of it

Spoon
>>104508652

Time might well prove that to be true mate and I’m not totally convinced either but ffs let’s play him in a way that suits him and then judge. He absolutely won’t work out wide right to accommodate a low scoring Kent for me. I do like him as I like solid pros with good attitude more than flair but we sign guys who are flying in a role or structure that plays to their strengths then ‘convert’ them to being ineffectual !

Graham Jones

There’s a huge hole at centre forward for most of our games. Alfie turns up when he decides, Colak is a good option for the squad and Roofe is the best we’ve but he’s unreliable for being fit. We need to make a significant signing in the summer for this position, but that can be said for several areas of the squad. The manager has to ask himself if a player is good enough, and whether he ever will be. As for the investors, there has been a lack of investment for the past two years. Not doing so after winning the title left us going backward just as the other lot did invest and moved forward again. You invest when you win the title. That’s always been a golden rule in football. Also, there has to be room to criticise the investors or they will take liberties, like they have for the past period of time. The protest on Saturday was the correct way to do things. It was about putting up banners that cn’t be questioned, and then back the team.

Spoon
>>104508652

Respect that I would rather see us stop trying to play this rotating folk about and go with peoples strengths, I prefer teams built around something not the constant change. We over complicate Scotland, defend strongly, control midfield, create chances on the deck in box, have clinical strikers. Yes it might need tweaked for Europe but what ever we have done outwith 55 in last 5 or 6 years isn’t working either in terms of players or style for me, it’s the proverbial definition of madness….

Heart and Hand
>>104513634

On investors, you’re right but this is the reality. People are not going to give us money any more. We need to run within our means. However, we HAVE spent a lot - huge wage bill is testament to that. Have we had value? No.

Spoon
>>104508652

Perhaps the most damning indictment of our current squad / style is nobody can agree on what works best or which players are performing, we just don’t have a clear direction or core best 11. That in itself isn’t helpful to me.

Gregg
>>104513634

After we won the league - we made a massive loss due to covid. We can’t continually expect people to pour their own money into the club, I do wonder if we as a support still have daddy issues when it comes to ownership. The reality is Celtic were in a better position financially than we were given what had gone on for the previous number of years.

Heart and Hand
>>104508652

Nah, I disagree there. I can definitely see a playing style, a best current 11 (though it needs upgraded) and we’re much better to watch (in spells as they don’t play 90 minutes of course) than under Gio. I can’t agree with you there.

Spoon
>>104508652

Think that highlights my point, some think it’s fine others don’t, some think X player is producing other think he’s a passenger. The players and style / tactics split opinion and for every negative or positive someone can make a polar opposite point. The main issue is we are bad as often as good, week to week, half to half sometimes minute to minute. I get people prefer different things but there is very little that unites opinion or draws agreement about this long in the tooth squad or style. I’m not saying there’s no style in saying it changes week to week and for all I accept that Gio relying on stars to produce didn’t work I’m not convinced calling it rotation and hoping Kent gets one of his six goals a season or Sakala stays onside that once is much different in concept, it’s phrased different but it’s hoping one of the front three produces something by letting them do what they want as far as I can see. If those front three were prolific then great, but they aren’t and the one guy who has shown he can score with correct service is. Kw being shunted about. In fairness one of my favourite ever players was big Flo and I said the same about him…. Give the big man service and he scores, problem was in Scotland tall guys automatically must want crosses and I don’t think we used him effectively by the end either! No coincidence he was banging doubles off the bench serviced by ice weighted passes in box Zola but struggled with the service we put in from wide. He was another guy who got got dragged back into the box for corners when we should have played to his strengths and left him up! I don’t think there is no redeeming elements of our squad, play or style I just don’t think we have been good at facing the reality lf where we actually are in terms of players or play since we ‘got back’ we seem determined to ignore flaws or demand more, our current ‘stars’ are less diamonds than cubics.

Lee

Kent up front as a 9 ahead of a 10, sounds like a recipe for a stress induced heart attack.

Douglas Innes
>>104496814

Weirdly enough it took the I troductiin of Alfie to.do that very thing on Saturday when he cut it back for Tillman

Tamus

What an absolute ladies front bottom Rocky Fister is. What exactly is his issue with Rangers?

Gregg
>>104508652

People have been disagreeing about players qualities for rangers since I started going - I do think it’s gotten worse with the onset of Twitter etc where some people take a stance to be different/ contrary. Only thing that’ll reduce the debate is winning 6-0 every week

Alex Dingwall

Great show guys and well made points about the 2 goals that were borderline offside. I was also raging about the handball in the lead up to their 2nd goal and couldn’t understand why it appeared to not have been checked. It was obvious that it hit his arm/hand and then he scored. Another small point is the use of multi ball, or zero use of it at Fir Park. The bizarre point where Ridvan was almost crawling under a tarpaulin to recover the ball was totally embarrassing. Even Ally was pissing himself how tinpot our game is up here. There needs to be a minimum standard of balls available in place, I can understand ballboys speeding up or slowing down the recovery of the ball but the zero use of multi ball is an absolute joke. Motherwell have past history for wee sneaky tactics like this, like not putting heating on during Covid in the changing area.

Steve Clark

Funnily enough when we did concede the corner for the second goal I also had David’s voice in my head about conceding goals from stupid corners we give away😂

Samantha Paterson

Good show, I'm on same track as you Stevie regarding protests and leadership.

Steven63

Be careful what you wish for, I'm in the Andy McGowan camp . Beale since he came in has created a title winning team if you look at the points on the board since he came in . My criticism would be that they had Michael Beale on the staff and let him go with Steven Gerrard and then re-employ him.That was a fatal error.

GM

These scrambles in the box that we generally have when defending a set piece seems to ALWAYS lead to a goal. Can think of four straight away- PSV, Kyogo, St Mirren and Saturday. If we don’t clear it first time, the players get in a ridiculous mess and panic.

Gareth Williams

On the goal from the flank we keep losing, low ball in and tap in from forward, I happened to watch highlights from the home match Vs Standard Liege on 3/12/2020 and was amazed to see the first goal for Standard in 6 mins was a mirror of Motherwell 1st goal (but from the opposite flank). It's amazing that this weakness has been going on for so long and hasn't been dealt with. It would be interesting to know how many goals of a similar ilk we have lost since 2018 and what can be done to combat this weakness.

Scott Parker

Ref people of a certain age expecting full backs to defend first. Yes I am one of those of a certain age but I also appreciate some abso quality attacking full backs we’ve had in my lifetime such as Jimmy Nicholl, Gary Stevens, David Robertson and Arthur Numan

Heart and Hand
>>104624316

All were higher-level players than Tav. In particular Stevens was the England full-back and Numan the Dutch. We can’t afford that level now.