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The Forum - Heroes and Villains (Patreon)

Published:
2023-05-02 06:00:02
Imported:
2026-06
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Content

27 years on from one of the most memorable individual performances ever seen at Ibrox, David and Martyn take a look at why we need heroes, why we excuse their failings and the necessary role of the villains too.

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Comments

Scott Christian

Halfway through, but have to stop for work, and agree about the age thing. I don’t think you can have personal heroes, no, after a certain age. You can admire, but I guess nobody will ever make you dream that you can be them these days, as you say! I’m expecting a full turnaround on my return commute later when the discussion moves on to villains, however! What makes us retain that disdain for people and allow them to make your blood boil? Psychology is a strange thing!

Dave White

What makes Steve Smith a cheating little bastard?

Tamus

Enjoyed that 👍🏻

George Higgins

Interesting discussion. Heroes and villains. Objectivity plays no part for many of us.

R. Jenkins
>>107634712

I would generally agree but then came Laudrup. I was checking in for a flight with my family, Mr Respectable, and right in front of us was God and his family checking in. I instantly became a tongue tied, stumbling worshipper.

Laura McCrimmon

Really interesting discussion especially on the part on being accepting of people you admire and their flaws and at some points even defending this person that you don't even know. Take Ryan Giggs for example, I adored him growing up, totally crushed on him (my maths jotter was covered in his poster) and loved him as a footballer. Then you get to present day and find out serial cheat, court appearances for controlling behaviour etc and for some reason I found myself giving it all the innocent until proven guilty then questioned myself why I would even think like that. I suppose it comes down to simply being able to separate what it was you admired them for and accepting they probably are not that nice a person but does it really impact me personally. I think there is so many people in life that you will appreciate their skills but not necessarily like them as a person.

Stuart brown

Enjoyed this one,but need to ask if you stole this idea from the TRIH show last Wednesday? 😂 I was sitting just to the right of you and Ross? Wanted to say how much I’d enjoyed your new book but shat it.

Scott Christian
>>107634712

I take the point. Same happened to me at Falkirk SC final when he was sitting near me; I asked for a photo and was shaking like a leaf. But I guess I was 19 when he arrived so still in the right territory of being a hero and remained in place as a hero. I did one of those Facebook things (yeah I know) where you posted 10 of your sporting heroes, all were from my youth (Daley Thompson, Barry McGuigan, Seve Ballesteros, Sandy Lyle the non-footballing ones), but I can’t think of a single sportsperson I’d class as a hero to me in my adult life. I very much admire many sportspeople; David Silva my favourite player to have played in the EPL, Dame Kelly Holmes my most inspirational athlete, Rory McIlroy I could watch that swing all day, and plenty of others but none of those people are heroes to me. Villains however, I could name plenty that keep arising!

Scott Christian

Martyn, for next week; is it possible to discuss why footballers in particular repeat the same mistakes over and over? In terms of sports psychology I mean. In my work we do a lot of human factors studies on tasks to ensure the workforce is safe when using machinery or equipment or carrying out a particularly repetitive task so I wondered if there’s any link with footballers carrying out what is essentially a repetitive task and that being the main cause of loss of concentration resulting in them repeating similar errors time and time again? In my work you can put controls in place like check sheets for hold points in the process or automated protection systems that kick in in the event of accidental misuse or not following the process. In football you can’t put those measures in place as it’s mostly reactive when defending. We seem to be discussing this issue of giving away stupid goals to the opposition an awful lot these days, is it simply down to concentration or something else with psychology? Apologies for the wordy question, not sure how to phrase it!!

Alex Downie

Really enjoyed your discussion today and your views on Heroes and Villains. For next week, I would be interested in you and the guests views on how you “fix” our current situation, The number of posts on H&H saying the players are losers and not mentally strong enough,almost character assassination on people we don’t know. What can you do to change this, if at all? How do you build belief in your ability and dispel the views of others.

Andrew straiton

Is it not the case that the size of the heroe for young and old is measured by the degree they he she exceed our expectations. Granted your expectations change as you get older but for us in a football context we just haven’t had that for us to hang our hat on of late. Good discussion lads. Thankyou

Andrew straiton

For the record my most recent heroe was the wee lad Tony Hudgell who raised money walking on crutches inspite of he’s physical disability. A true heroe.

Paul Kerr

Really loving this series. Our generation will always be Ally. My most recent sporting hero would have been Jessica Ennis in 2012. Literally the 'Face of the games' That girl next door you spoke about. Smashed it and wiped the floor with her competition in the final event for her big moment. I was screaming like a maniac for her that night.

Stuart Porter

Question for next week. Is this generation mentally weaker and in better need of fine tuning in terms of sports psychology. If so, why?

Gary Brown

Thanks Martyn & David. Enjoyed that discussion and enjoying the format of the series. Sports psychology point for discussion and fringes kn the Heroes & Villains theme too - Exploiting the 'dark arts' ? Something Rangers as a team / club do not do (or do not do enough). The 'local team' certainly do. Pressure testing the officials whenever the opportunity, claiming for everything, every game - law of averages they will get decisions they are not entitled to. Like everyone I'm upset by the lead up to the Cup SF goal. However! Up to that point the ref had been giving anything & everything to that lot, thus breaking down a lot of our attacking play. So I can understand the 'Aw FFS! Again?' hesitation which ignited that particular clusterf**k. The two ties against Sparta Prague are the best example of this I have ever seen against us. Masters of it. But its not just them. Even Thistle were 'at it' vs us re the Tillman event (& throughout the game). It's now endemic in all levels of the sport. Could it be heroes win fairly but villains win frequently?

James McConnachie

‘Crime of the era’ - 😃 Good show guys. It’d put Radio Snotland to shame. Martyn’s like a Graham Spiers that doesn’t make you want to want to cannonball yourself into a deep fat fryer.

Rona Bluebell

Was this show all about Ryan Kent?

Andy Sladen

Great discussion again lads and thought provoking. First love for me is Colin Stein! Enjoy the Headingley test. I’m there the first day if it’s the same day as you and I bump into you will buy you both a Yorkshire tea 😃

Callum Dinnen

Anthony Gordon is an interesting, left field shout for a 'Footballers I Would Love to Two Foot' XI. Andy Robertson would be my current pick. Martyn's contribution towards this XI would be very much appreciated.

Martyn Ramsay
>>107663953

Ha, no I had the idea before going, I promise! You can ask Ross to confirm 😁 Oh, you should have said hello!

Dave White
>>107636691

He wasn't actually the one who did it though. And he's been captain since.