Home
Creators
Search Recent Random
Posts
Search DMs Popular Hash Lookup Tags Random
Importer
Import FAQ
Register Favorites Keys Review DMs Logout
Community
Telegram ThePornDude
Home Creators Posts Import Register Favorites Logout

Episode 117 -- Birth Control Misinformation (Patreon)

Published:
2026-01-21 05:15:43
Imported:
2026-09

Downloads

Content

For this episode, Moira walks Adrian through the conservative attack on birth control, and in particular the influencer-led, MAHA-adjacent surge of misinformation about menstruation and birth control. At issue is ultimately a deeply reactionary, and deeply troubling picture of the gendered body and women's autonomy. Topics covered include: cycle synching, the politics of "naturalness" and the weaponization of legitimate grievances with the medical establishment for ideological purposes.

Here is the list of books/articles we refer to in this episode:

-- Dorothy Roberts, Killing the Black Body: Race, Reproduction and the Meaning of Liberty (1998)

-- Mikaeli Anne Carmichael, Rebecca Louise Thomson, Lisa Jane Moran, Thomas Philip Wycherley, "The Impact of Menstrual Cycle Phase on Athletes’ Performance: A Narrative Review"

Comments

Joanne Scutero

Mango Mussolini's MAGAts (particularly the men) seem to have this fantasy that if we just rolled back the calendar to the post-war 1940s or the 1950s, when most women stayed home, popped out one baby after another, and saw their primary goal in life as being a servant to men and raising a family, then life would be perfect. For MAGA men, easy access to birth-control pills in the early 1960s was the beginning of Armageddon, because women (who could now choose having a career outside the home, instead of being a baby factory) started getting uppity & demanding (like newly-freed slaves after the Civil War).

Ilona

When talking about ‘one fit all’ solution people often forget (or do not experience/know) that another ‘one fit all’ solution suggestion for many doctors is ‘just have a baby, after having a baby heavy Menstruation cramps and pains do get better’. And no one ever talks about medication not working because of the hormonal differences within the month. (No pain and adhd medication that works 31 days of the month is a clear yes-please to me)

jacq

i’ve been diagnosed with endometriosis since I was 15. it’s known as one of the most painful diseases out there. the tldr is that birth control—the pill—is a life saving drug for someone like me and my symptoms, which include, as i’ve described it, “feeling like your insides are being microwaved.” for days on end, alongside all kinds of other debilitating and extremely uncomfortable side effects. it’s like the worst period of your life on steroids, and it doesn’t just affect you when you’re menstruating. it’s a full body disease capable of strangling and depraving your organs of oxygen into death of the organs themselves. the pill I take continuously to skip my periods so that I can be a functioning member of society all four weeks of the month, instead of 2 and a half. i’m also nonbinary, so every girliepop that’s tried to tell me to get off the pill to “connect with my natural womanhood” gets to meet the wrath of one of those evil leftist grad student they/thems the atlantic keeps writing about. thank you so much for speaking on this—it’s so disheartening and angering to face the absolute machine of anti birth control propaganda. esp from a disabled//trans/nb perspective like my own. (another episode?: endo/pcos/“women’s diseases” and the abysmal research/treatment/understandings of them in the medical world?!)

Ariel

Very same. I probably have endometriosis, and my grandmother definitely had endometriosis. When she was in her twenties the pill was just coming out and didn’t work for her. And that ended up with tissue wrapped around her ovaries and part of her colon. I’ve been on some form of hormonal medication since I was 14, and it’s genuinely made things so much better. Plus, what is natural femininity? I just injected my first testosterone shot because I want to have an amazing tenor/baritone voice AND wear colorful dresses.

Molly Omoomian

Do you think there’s any correlation between the right wing capture of women’s health and hormones and the villainising of trans people, specifically trans women? I’m thinking they are justifying blocking trans people/youths access to hormones by claiming that they are ‘harmful’ and ‘unnatural’… seems cis women is the follow on from that

Kayla

Glad to see this topic being discussed but as a 5'11 girly I find it annoying that hormonal birth control is herein described as a complete miracle that everyone should be on, which it totally is for those that can use it, but you didn't acknowledge that it's not actually accessible for a huge swathe of women. Estrogen based birth control is only effective for weights under 160lbs and the only hormonal bc available to the talls & the fats is progesterone based which has much more significant side effects.

Gwen

I too suppress my menstruation with hormones (in the form of progesterone injections) because of horrific menstruations. But the injections have tons of side effects for me which I would not accept if the alternative at this point wasn't terrible symptoms for a fourth of my life (a week a month) or a hysterectomy. Yes also clearly reduced libido and much fewer orgasms and changed moods, it is not great. While I am very pro-medicine this episode did seem to me to be a bit too unfazed by side effects that a big share of the population accepts atm. Also since the medication is mostly used for birth control and birth control isn't covered by health insurance in this country I have to pay out of pocket for medication that is absolutely necessary for me. If there was more interest in treating endometriosis and similar illnesses, we'd have specific medication for it, maybe with less side effects but certainly new medications that aren't primarily birth control would be taken more serious by the heath care sector.

Z F

That cycle tracking app you described explains a lot. I recently stumbled on a reddit thread of women proclaiming how great they feel when they're ovulating, and I thought I was losing my mind. The only difference I notice when I'm ovulating is that I'm more bloated and acne-prone. I feel the best on the day my period ends, and would pay a lot for a pill that paused me at whatever balance of hormones I have on that day, but so far the hormonal BC I've tried hasn't done the trick. Wound up getting the copper IUD - made my periods heavier initially, but it's extremely reliable and lasts 12 years. (I got a new one put in the week RBG died, just in case they were gonna start enforcing the Comstock Laws again.)

Maria Kaye-Bardgett

Thanks, this was such an interesting discussion! I am unfortunately one of the very rare people who got a massive blood clot while on the pill and have been told by my doctors that all hormonal options are off the table. When these cycle tracking/rhythm method apps first came out I was definitely interested as it looked like a great option for people like me, but I’ve been really alarmed at how quickly the discourse around them has swung hard to the right and antifeminism. I’m lucky that the copper coil works well for me, but it’s not an option for a lot of people (can make periods much worse) and I wish there was a path to develop more non-hormonal contraception that didn’t align with all these right wing weirdos!

Kiera

A conservative family member once mentioned she doesn’t take birth control as her “only feminist issue” because it was designed for women, and not men. She believes this is anti-feminist because the responsibility (financial, medical, or otherwise) falls on women instead of men. I find this argument is persuasive amongst the reactionary centrist crowd because they can believe themselves to be “feminist” while, in reality, rhetorically attacking the principal miracle of birth control (women’s control of their reproductive outcomes).

Kathryn M

THANK YOU. The cycle-syncing things has been making me uncomfortable for SO LONG now. I can’t take a lot of birth control because of a genetic predisposition to blood clots, so I take a progesterone only pill that has - a) helped my chronic migraines and b) helped with the PTSD I struggled with around my period after dealing with infertility.

Hayes M.

God this is so overdue, I hate all this shit. As a trans man with pmdd, the whole battle of misogynistic misinformation vs Offical Accepted Health Science is one where I don't win; either any symptoms are because I pissed off the moon goddess or by taking testosterone, or a deer-in-headlights blank stare and a "lol idk. Wanna try progesterone again?" And like, no, I don't 😭. Above all, the sheer lack of hormonal research for women AND men, frankly, doesn't help anyone. I think it's too easy to fall into the trap of entirely dismissing hormones having an debilitating impact on mental health in trying to counter narratives that all women be crazy over emotional tired little waifs- I certainly don't have a better strategy, since nuance that covers and includes everyone is not a winning strategy in culture wars. All that to say that it's an unfortunate casualty that people who greatly need hormonal management beyond basic birth control options are often the most vulnerable to this misinfo poaching. And it sucks. It sucks! It sucks to feel insane and sometimes near cataonically depressed between the 11th and 14th of every month and it sucks to be told that "doesn't make sense" since I clearly no longer have a cycle and yet it is clearly cycling! I hate conversations with doctors where we both have to agree to, and I quote, "wing it!".

Ray Davis

MOIRA!!!!!!! As a physician that regularly prescribes birth control, I can tell you without reservation this is the BEST podcast on birth control I have heard in AGES!!!! Even other sciences sources that typically do a decent job explaining and critiquing scientific research completely fail to address the underlying misogyny in the very questions being asked. No matter how good the science, if your hypothesis is biased, your results will be too. Will definitely recommend this episode to patients that listen to podcasts. THANK YOU!!!!!

Hayes M.

AND I NEED ADDERALL TO WORK ON THOSE DAYS AND IT MIGHT AS WELL BE SUGAR PILLS. 😭😭😭

Laura R

I mod a blood cancer sub and have a companion website for it. I thought I'd write a post about vitamin B12 and its role in blood formation. The first thing I ran into in my research was that it's very complex and difficult to understand without a PhD level background in biochemistry, some molecular/cellular biology and hematology. I then thought okay I can't really simplify this, maybe there's a YouTube video that does. Went to YouTube and omg, I was deluged with health influencer videos. So many that the educational ones couldn't even be located. I think they deliberately choose topics that a lay person cannot verify due to the complexity. And also, as Moira pointed out, create the opportunity to sell something. Similarly, with female hormones, they affect so many systems that you also need PhD level background in biochemistry, endocrinology, immunology, reproductive physiology and pharmacology. Especially biochemistry... Without that fundamental background, hormones become magic numbers. Connected to all of this is the Dunning-Kruger effect, and the lack of respect for scientists and anyone with a high level of expertise / education.

A Felt

“What is it with female grifters and wanting your blood?” Maybe they do want to turn women into vampires after all 😂

lentil_butch

Awesome discussion, and really great job of explaining how sneakily this rhetoric can weave its way into the gaps in healthcare for vulnerable folks. I got sucked into seed-cycling in college pre-covid as a fat lesbian with PCOS. The student health center was woefully unprepared to treat my body with nuance, I did not have access to insurance, and I needed something to make me feel like I had control over my health. Can confirm it did nothing but make me hate pumpkin seeds for a few years lol. I'd be very interested in an episode on the Depo Provera shot.

A Felt

Seriously though, this is an excellent episode. I appreciate y’all contextualizing why this kind of content can be so appealing to women while emphasizing how harmful it is.

Maureen McCord

Love my hormonal birth control; it has long helped manage my symptoms of PCOS even before I was diagnosed. I definitely think it's a complicated issue, though. One thing I detest is how much my mother, who hasn't been on hormonal contraception since the late 80s and was only diagnosed with endo during her c-section, assumes that hormonal birth control is a necessary evil. She doesn't even have a uterus anymore, and hasn't since, like, 2012, but she assumes that every headache/depression/bloating symptom I ever experience is due to the pill. Like...the formulas of hormonal contraception have changed since 1985!!! I am FINE and I'm just DOING my BEST in a depressing and stressful world!!! Anyway, another great topic and another great episode from Moira and Adrian.

Kiah Bowers

So much of this misinformation was familiar to me from the infertility space, where desperate people will try just about anything and grifters take advantage. I tried a few out of desperation as I wasn't conceiving and was paying $1500/vial for sperm. Ultimately, though, it was the scientific/medical advances of the fertility industry that led to my kiddos. After my second child was born I ended up with painful heavy periods and tried the Mirena (beloved by my wife, who has severe endometriosis). It made me deeply depressed and I felt like I was losing my grip on reality for ~3 months. Yanked that sucker out and got a script for the pill, which has actually worked as my mood stabilizer for about 3 years now. My experience encompasses both how painful, frustrating, and trial-and-error gynecological treatment can be, but also, ultimately, how effective it can be. As with the natural childbirth episode, I can better empathize with women pulled into the rhetoric and also remain furious with the systems the fail us and the ideologues who take advantage.

Chelsea S

I'm 54 minutes in and commenting before the end so maybe you're about to make this comparison but it's all JUST HOROSCOPES FOR PERIODS!! And people fall for it for the same reasons they would fall for horoscopes.

Betti Tristan

The idea that women should take birth control because it might change their bodies (ie make them gain weight)… if you aren’t prepared for a little change here or there, i cannot recommend childbirth and parenthood for you less.

Heidi Vee

It’s interesting to hear that reports of reduction in libido are spurious. I never had that side effect with IUDs, but within weeks of starting the pill I experienced a huge reduction in libido that has now lasted years. Hormonal birth control helps me regulate my PCOS symptoms though, and this is my only side effect, so I’m not giving it up anytime soon. :/

maya b

i will never shut up about this episode for the rest of my life

Meredith

Thank you for your comment! I didn't even think about the weight issue (although I am well over 160lbs), but remember being surprised when Aubrey mentioned that Plan B doesn't work for fat folks a few years ago, so duh. Getting over the side-effects "hurdle" of BC never outweighed the benefits for me (mild-to-moderate PMS symptoms, low risk of pregnancy) and I was disappointed that mood swings and mental health concerns weren't listed by Moira as one of the common side effects.

Kayla

I think even now very few people on bc know about the weight limits which is why it's so frustrating that it never gets a mention! I was on nuvaring for 2 full years until moving to Europe and when trying to refill the prescription was told I wasn't a candidate for estrogen based bc because of my weight. I was stunned that I had so casually been put at risk by my American doctors for so long! And yeah I'm with you about the mental health side. I was on depo for a few years which made me absolutely hate every aspect of my life with depression and mood swings.

Julia

This movement is so weird to me. When I was a teenager in the late 90s & early 2000s in Europe, we didn’t learn in detail about our bodies. But the message of not getting pregnant and what to do to control that (never do cycle tracking, don’t trust just condoms etc) was everywhere … the older women always told us that we really have to prevent unwanted pregnancies and use the most effective tools available, even if side effects occurred. Because most of them experienced the world without those opportunities (and rights) for women. I will never understand why anyone wants to go back to that time.

Emily

Same. I can't take a pill anymore because I had migraines with visual aura (a risk factor for stroke) so I manage my PCOS with a combo of Mirena IUD, Metformin, Spironolactone, Zoloft & Wellbutrin. My libido is always gonna be lower when I'm treating the PCOS bc it lowers testosterone, doesn't matter how I treat it.

Heidi Vee

Sorry to hear about your migraines! I never noticed the libido side effect with the Mirena IUDs, but unfortunately my body seems able to expel them; after several tries I had to give up and switch to the pill. Too bad, because those were actually side effect-less for me!

Rebecca

I have endometriosis, Adenomyosis and PCOS. I have been thrown birth control as the be all and end all of solving my chronic illness and I get so many ads about things that will cure and reduce my endo etc. Add in being a black woman and medical gaslighting and I feel like I should be ripe for this birth control misinformation (luckily I’ve resisted) I’ve been on various birth control and it actually didn’t work well for me, however I would never discourage other women from taking it, especially as so many women especially with Endo/Adeno birth control has truly saved them from the immense pain and awful chronic pain that comes with it. It seems as though it’s always so anecdotal for birth control and that can be so dangerous to completely exclude the idea of birth control completely, however it is also not something that can be used as a plaster for wider issues a lot of the time. It’s a difficult balance I feel.

Emily

Something that FEELS related: when I'm talking to married men at work, at parties, etc. I've noticed a trend recently where they say "my wife stopped birth control and we're just going to let what happens, happens." Some of them are already dads, some aren't. The implication being, they're not planning to have a certain number of children, they are just gonna let nature do its thing. It's a bizarre thing to say to a random coworker or friend. But also, it seems like they are acknowledging that bc technology has given us choice and agency in family planning, but they are abdicating that. Not that they are deferring to their wife, but that they are deferring to Nature or God or something.

Emily

I'm so sorry 😭

cheyenne ☕️

this episode was so interesting to me, because as someone who made the choice to go off hormonal birth control a few years ago, i found myself getting defensive of my choices as i was listening, and then forced myself to slow down and listen. i’m not an anti BC person by any means whatsoever, i think it’s great and ill endlessly defend it, but i had some negative side effects and switched to meticulously tracking, using an oura ring, etc. i’m happy with my personal choice on that front, but i would never take my anecdotal experience and contradict someone else’s healthcare choices or go online and pretend i know what i’m talking about 😅 i’m no doctor. that being said, this was a beyond helpful episode to me. anytime i found myself feeling defensive, i had to pause and ask myself… why? what opinion am i holding and what information did i base that opinion on to react internally like that. it’s been a good exercise in unpacking some unconscious beliefs i didn’t even realize i was holding. as a side note…. i also spent about six months really dedicated to cycle syncing…. and the only thing it helped me understand is not to be so mean to myself about my weight and energy fluctuations throughout the month. i don’t cycle sync anymore because honestly it was way too much work for very little payoff, and i was sick of my instagram feed getting more and more “trad wifey”. it’s a pretty quick pipeline to alt right feminine energy stuff, and yikes on all that as you’ve pointed out on the pod before. but this is all to say, as someone who dove head first into the natural tracking movement….. i can say from the inside that it’s 100% a stepping stone into conservative gender essentialism and it really concerns me how quickly people take what should just be a personal healthcare choice into mistrust of their doctors/the pill at large. but truly, once you’re on that side of short form content it becomes scary so quickly. the only other thing i’ll say, is that i do have very noticeable swings in my moods, energy levels, and libido throughout the month. it doesn’t affect my ability to do anything as some right wing conversations might suggest, but i personally do feel those fluctuations and enjoy tracking my body like that. but i’m also the kind of person who journals daily and tracks everything from caffeine intake to steps to mood. but as always, women are not a monolith. just because i feel one way ovulating doesn’t mean someone else feels that, and just because i enjoy tracking doesn’t mean someone else would or should. anyways i’m rambling but great episode as always!! so much food for thought for me in the episode and so many of these great comments.

Tobias Heal

The comparison with SSRIs really caught my attention, it's one I'd caught myself thinking about throughout the episode. I wouldn't want to pretend that it s somehow the same, but I actually got into a conversation with a friend where we talked about some of the practicalities of me being on SSRIs were analogous to her being in birth control. I'd love a broader episode on mental health medication and the ire that it attracts from people on the right, but also some others

sonorasgirl

I agree with all folks experiences with BC, and am not saying the next part to invalidate that some people have an awful time…AND I’m one of the people with endo it worked well for (the IUD did at least; oral bc didn’t). I went from vomiting once a month for a week and having severe cramps that no meds touched, and severe depression, to being…normal lol. I know this isn’t everyone’s experience, but the IUD has been genuinely life changing for me. I nearly lost jobs cause I’d have to take so much time off and had huge issues with being believed it was as bad as it was. Now I get to live like a man 😂. No periods, no pain, mood leveled, no monthly vomiting. I fully get more research and such needs to be done, but I’m angry that my ability to have genuinely life-changing medication is being threatened by men who don’t understand it and women whose experiences are valid, but not everyone’s.

Lu

I never took birth control. Did not need it because I don't have any health problems and don't date men. I never knew that you could take BC if you want to avoid periods??? (Sex ed in school was bad) As a teen I would've given everything to get a pill that would stop my period. I hated using school bathrooms, i spent my whole days in school and genuinely forgot painkillers exist! And my mom never told me to take them because we talked about periods once... Now, I feel a bit diffetently. I had anorexia and missed a couple of periods, so for me not having a period was a sign my body is sick. After I recovered and got my period back, I learned how to manage it and I am ok with feeling bad a couple of days a month. At this moment, knowing my cycle is regular means my body is fine and i feel it calms my worries about relapsing.

Lu

Also, i have a great anecdote for the period influencers and their crap about feeling feminine and menstruating off the pill like god intended. In the last year i got misgendered 3 times and all of those times I was on my period. (I'm female, short hair) Was i radiating my femine energy then???

Nevrosiel

So many good points and glad to hear we are crazy no matter what. I claim that as good crazy for myself 😆

jacq

thank you for this response! I know i’m lucky enough to be on a bc that’s been working pretty well for me (slynd for the last year and a half, and then junel for about 7 years before that) and that i’ve lived in blue states my whole life, where birth control (like the pill) is free. I think re: the terrible symptoms of the medicine we have no alternatives to take could be explored more in an episode on the severe under-research of aforementioned “women’s diseases.” how “male” birth control was shelved because participants complained the side effects were so awful (aka the same ones we have to deal with)

Moira Donegan

Thanks so much for trusting us to listen through this episode! So glad you’ve found a practice that works for you. 💘

Karen Cox

Let me introduce you two the best side effects of the Pill for me: my sons Andy ànd Aaron. Back in the 1970’s, gyns didn’t think that teenagers got endometriosis, so I endured 8 years of periods so painful I needed ER treatment. I finally told my mother that I couldn’t go through law school like that ànd got the Pill. (I was admonished never to mention the prescription to ANYONE lest the world decide I was a whore.) Anyway, thé Pill is THE treatment for endometriosis so I was cured and could get pregnant àt ages 34 ànd 37.5 without intervention. The Pill saved my natural fertility!

Karen Cox

Also, it should be noted that Alex Clark is: 1. 32 years old; 2. An attorney; 3. Unmarried; ànd 4. Childless. I don’t know whether she had a cat or not.

Elle

I don’t think that downplaying the mental health side effects of hormone treatment is helpful. I am a huge advocate of access to hormonal birth control, but among my friends, mental health side effects were their main motivation for switching which hormonal birth control they’re using. Also, as someone who gained a lot of weight in lexapro, sudden weight gain is really disorienting.

Laura Cullen

Does anybody know about getting access to the Discord? I upgraded my membership because I was so fired up to talk more about this topic (and help Adrian and Moira afford to sample some seeds), but I'm not sure I'm seeing where to click/what to do.

Molly

I so want to share this podcast with a friend who I’m currently living with (long story but at 60 yo it’s been rough tho I’m super grateful!). I don’t know how she’ll take it though. After months of cohabitating with her, along with her adult children and boyfriend, I’ve come to believe she may be on the bi-polar spectrum. (Have a weirdly large amount of friends who have it and were diagnosed late in life). I’m not a professional obvs, just have first-hand experiences. When I finally had nerve to bring it up to her—as her friend who loves her and lives with her—her reply was that her extreme highs and lows were due to her menstrual cycle. (As we were talking, I looked up bi-polar and the menstrual cycle, and it seems the hormonal shifts can exacerbate symptoms. Caveat that this was super quick internet research!) Unfortunately, as you can guess, she did not embrace my suggestion to see a professional—gynecologist or psychiatrist. Moira, I think it was during the natural childbirth episode that you said something to the effect of: “you don’t need to suffer if your periods are difficult, go to a nice young woman gynie!” This episode (I hope) may be a way to help her understand that natural is not always better and encourage her to get help (at the very least for her difficult periods). Her downtimes due to her periods are substantial, being menopausal is also mentioned which I know first-hand is difficult. (Please do an episode on menopause!! I had no close living female relatives when going through and was appalled at dearth of information and lack of open discussion amongst women.) If there’s succor, her difficult periods are tragic, but I’m also weirded out that her cycle is presented as a catch-all excuse in the name of feminism. Does that make sense? It feels weird and judgy to say out loud! As an aside, I was on pill way back in the day when you still had the sugar ones so you got your period. I had no idea that this was a weird outdated thing to make you feel more “normal” (why??!!) until I listened to this episode as haven’t been on it since my early twenties. When I started the pill. I was 16 and getting 10 to 14 days of heavy bleeding with a brief week off before it all started again. Pill was great for that and also convenient as had just become sexually active. Ps. ALSO: so excited to be able to comment (finally!!) at pervert level. I’m all caught up on your episodes and miss hearing your voices every day. I recommend and quote your podcast so much! Frustrated tho that I’ll probably never have time to comment on historic episodes. You’ve educated me and enriched my life so much. Finally have found a like-minded community which has been wonderful. Pps. I’m outside your demographic but such a huge fan and grateful for the work you do!!!

Molly

As usual Moria sums up stuff so well. I was so excited left my first comment before finishing podcast and hadn’t listened to the last bit where she said: “be a grown up, take care of your health!” Yes!!!!!

AdinaY

I think this could mean a number of things, though it's really odd for randos at work to be talking to you about this at parties. I had a good friend tell me about 15 years ago, when she was about to turn 30, that she and her partner were going to "stop trying to prevent" pregnancy once she turned 30. To me this seemed odd phrasing, especially from an avowed atheist; why not just say you were going off birth control b/c you were hoping to start a family? But people can be a bit weird when they decide to start a family. They ended up having 3 kids, intentionally AFAIK. But 15 years ago was a different time, and who knows if these men at your work are talking this way because their wives are consuming influencer content?

AdinaY

I think it's a tough balancing act with the "both, and" of "most women are not, contrary to RW weirdos' claims, unable to work or think for most of the month" but/and "some women, though not most, experience mood swings on at least some forms of hormonal birth control." The episode, which I mostly really enjoyed, could have done a somewhat better job of acknowledging these are both true. I thought Adrian's comparison to taking SSRIs was the most nuanced part of the argument offered on this issue. (But I snort-laughed at "if you think a fertilized egg has the same right to life as an adult woman, you are a deeply unserious person," so thanks for that and the rest of the ep, Moira!)

AdinaY

I really enjoyed this episode, and the comments here address most of the relatively small "well, actually" thoughts I had, but here's one more: While I'm glad Moira found an IUD that has stopped her period since that's been a good experience for her, some women don't feel great if they never have periods, even simulated ones. People who are on hormonal BC and are sensitive to hormones and/or have various hormonal conditions can feel better if they occasionally do that placebo week that the pill manufacturers put in largely for marketing reasons, as Moira said (and, as she didn't, at least according to a New Yorker article I read about 20 years ago, to improve the chance that the Catholic Church would approve the pill, ha, ha), so this is just another "one size doesn't fit all" combined with another "I'm not a doctor, but talk to your doctor if you have any questions or concerns" (in this case, if your period stops on hormonal BC, and you don't feel that great).

Emily

Three separate men said something similar to me all within a year, that's why it sticks out in my mind. I guess it reminds me a tiny bit of the pronatalist movement... Two of them explicitly said "we'll have as many kids as we can." (My first comment didn't clearly communicate that part). That's bonkers to me and I haven't heard that attitude from women, generally.

RFB

"Stop taking your birth control and buy my seed packets" sounds like an advert coming out of an Elon Musk style baby farm to me 🙂

Katie

This episode was wonderful. Thank you so much, Moira! For a minute there, I found the “Slow down, I’m just a girl!” discourse kind of refreshing. (Yikes—I’m sorry!) It felt like a bit of an antidote to the hustle culture of my twenties. Then, Moira reminded us about the discourse surrounding Rodham Clinton’s fitness to serve when she first ran for president. Spell officially broken!!!

Ashley

I would be careful about how you provide this information to her. As someone who has bipolar II and is medicated and still working with a psychiatrist and gynecologist to track whether and to what extent my mood cycles are impacted by my cycle (as the healthcare professionals recommend I do), I found myself flinching a bit when Moira glossed over the very severe impacts our cycles and hormones do actually have on the mood and mental health of many women. I 100% agree with Moira’s conclusion that birth control can actually reduce the negative effects of our hormonal swings, but I wish Moira wasn’t quite so quick to brush off the very real and sometimes severe hormonally-related health issues that women deal that men do not. (There are literally women who have full psychosis after having their babies because of hormones and so many of us experience severe post-partum depression or anxiety.) Anyway, although I agree that our hormones don’t “control us” and shouldn’t be used as a weapon to block women from society or the workforce, I would appreciate a bit more nuance and empathy in addressing the fact that women’s hormones do sometimes have extremely negative impacts on our ability to work and flourish. (Again, if you want to look at a non controversial example, look to the postpartum period as an example.) Anyway, I would just tread carefully in how you present this to your friend. I found it a little painful to listen to even as someone who is extremely pro-birth control and pro-medicine. I don’t think anyone who is opposed to it is going to take well to this one.

Ashley

Agreed. I also commented above in more detail about this, but even as someone who is actually using hormonal birth control as one part of managing my mental illness, I was hurt by how much Moira ignored the extent to which hormones can completely fuck with some women’s mental and physical health (see postpartum psychosis, for example). I understand that she doesn’t want the existence of hormonal differences to be weaponized against women, but to ignore them entirely was frustrating and I think does more harm than good to this project.

Ashley

Yes yes yes to all this Hayes.

Kira Hamilton

I do think there’s value in paying attention to how you feel and tracking to see if your hormones are playing into those fluctuations to better understand how to care for yourself, but it’s worth mentioning that huge mood swings can happen with periods and that is often a sign of PMDD! Some mood changes and irritability are normal but if it is incapacitating that’s not a blanket statement on women’s abilities, it’s a sign to seek medical assistance

Kira Hamilton

My partner was having really severe mental health episodes that we were noticing were recurring roughly the week before their period and they got diagnosed with PMDD an had to up their antidepressants the week before their period before they got an IUD to try and stop them altogether. It’s unsurprising but really disturbing how these people use claims about caring about “female health” but then actively discourage people from using medications that can help them actually manage their health

Kelly G.

I was diagnosed with PMDD last year. It’s no joke, before my period I have a steep decline in estrogen and consequently get intense migraines and insomnia. Like sleeping 2-3 hours for 3-4 days in a row prior to my period. It is brutal and I am proactive, I take medications for it and am healthy otherwise, which is why the statement, “You’re an adult figure it out” felt needlessly cruel. I don’t think it’s gender essentialism to acknowledge that many women experience some pretty debilitating side effects from menstruation, especially those with endometriosis. It doesn’t make us any less worthy.

Sally

I’m a therapist in a medical clinic, and I feel complicated about this one! I frequently hear concerns about effects and “not being myself” around SSRIs, Metformin, and birth control alike. These influencers take it WAYYY too far, but I do consider cycles in my practice, even if it’s not a full on pathological diagnosis. For instance, if we’re putting together a plan to help keep her safe, we might write down triggers like hot weather, having an argument with her parents or….being on my period. There’s a thin line between infantilization and taking it seriously, but I do think it’s worth examining. That said, LOVED this episode and never thought about the workforce impact! (Obviously not medical advice, etc)

lsh

I grew up in a country, France, where hormonal birth control and specifically pills are not presented to teenage girls as one of several possibilities (IUD, copper coil, implant, or even rhythm), but as the only avenue to treat "women issues" (be it pregnancy, pain, or mental health). For my mother's generation (1945+), the pill was a godsend. For my peers and I, we had to discover on our own that we had other choices, while confronted with a medical establishment reluctant to explore options. We were never taught that hormones are not just one thing - oestrogen, progesterone, testosterone... all coexist in various bodies in various quantities, and fluctuate wildly. It took me ten years to acknowledge that progesterone made me suicidal (a common symptom of PMDD, but it's one of the main hormonal control ingredients), and that low dose testosterone helped with both my endo and energy. I completely support your denunciation of exploiting this state of affair by grifters and conservatives. Still , I believe that greater discussion around hormones is extremely rich, and I believe that the tension between All-Pill and All-Natural is necessary to open a space to explore alternatives.

lsh

On a wildly different note, "turning all men into vampires and all women into gerbils" is why I'm so glad i subscribe to your pod

SLP

This episode was interesting and informative up to a point. The dismissive tone and hand waving of lived experiences of women was disappointing. Quoting scientific studies is a plus, but never acknowledging that there aren’t enough studies of women’s health is def a minus. Neither Moira or Adrian are (medical) doctors, so I hope that in any future hormone-based episodes an actual expert is featured

Molly

Thank you for your thoughtful comment and sharing your story. I was feeling weird about my post and after thinking about it, I realized I was looking for permission for something I didn’t feel comfortable doing i.e. giving her advice about her own body. She’s been having issues with health insurance coverage plus I’m realizing has never had real female support in her life. I have a ton of allergies which affect me daily which no one gets so different but also the same. Xo

Molly

Commented before and got some good advice. scrolling through posts learned acronym PMDD. Really appreciate learning about it as I’m menopause old. Also as an aside, if finding a good doc/gynie is not so easy. I went through childbirth and found out how different practitioners can be. Happy for those who’ve found one, but, my “ woke” pcp female doc offered nothing regarding menopause. Having a shit ton of allergies and being sensitive to meds in general I agreed with her, but looking back would have preferred some options as it’s hellish and at time not not talked about. When I was Moira’s age, I had no health insurance and was totally ok. At 60, my health is a lot more complicated. Ageism is a feminist issue as well. All that said, enjoyed the episode and learned so much. Thanks for it and enjoying the discussion that’s been generated.

Ellie

I regret to inform you that there is a MAHA-adjacent push to get people to stop taking statins for cardiovascular risk reduction. They think the seed oils cause atherosclerosis (the lesions in blood vessels causing heart attack and stroke) and not cholesterol. It’s depressing

café latte supernova

Would love to know the title of the article they mentioned about women on birth control having higher use of SSRI, and Moira said it is just causal. I'm sure there is a high correlation but I do think many women also have mental health side effects when using BC and would be interested to read the study!

café latte supernova

agreed! I'm pro birth control and felt some of the points on the impact of hormones was a bit dismissive

Zee Cannon

Hormonal birth control was basically poison for me. It sent me into a mental health crisis I'm still traumatized from 10+ years later. I did indeed feel "not like myself," in that my main symptom (although not by any means the only one) was extreme depersonalization. Anyway, now I'm going on testosterone. Would love for one of these right-wing influencers to have me on to discuss :)

Lizbeth

Moira’s cruelty is breathtaking at the end. I’ve heard about as much science as in any of the ‘influencer’ takes. Pure ideology that shits all over the lived experiences of women. I enjoy her so much in all but this topic.

Lizbeth

Any science to back up claims about libido and other aspects would have also been good! In the UK you can be prescribed antidepressants for PMDD and it would be interesting to see how maybe start with BC then move on to SSRI.

Fuchsia

This is a tricky subject for me in places and I'm with Moira when she talks about how women's bodies and reproductive cycles are overly focused on and pathologised culturally, and women online making menstruation pseudoscience their whole platform definitely feels like part of that. I don't want this world where women's opinions and abilities are undermined by a belief that we're less capable or in control of ourselves because of our menstrual cycles. On the other, I do actually have severe PMDD that causes a risk to my life and have sought help for it because I try very hard to be responsible for my shit, and the help is not there from the medical establishment because it's just kind of considered the fate of women to suffer with these kinds of symptoms whether it's a chronic illness or responding poorly to contraceptives. I think that pathologising menstruation culturally contributes to the lack of care women suffering with these issues are shown because even doctors assume that it's normal for our hormones and reproductive organs to fuck us up. I think Moira could, in her discourse, give a shout out to those of us who do struggle with these symptoms and are not taken seriously while also pointing out that women not experiencing issues with their hormones maybe shouldn't reduce every part of their experience down to what stage their period tracker says they're in. I'm gonna work on the basis that Moira's sign off was directed at these women who chalk up every bad day to their luteal phase like it's Mercury in retrograde and not at those of us who struggle with medical issues, cause those influencers are not helping any of us.

testosteronefemme

which is especially fucked bc there's decent evidence that atherosclerosis is often downstream of immunological processes. like, including oral bacteria bc your mouth is a waterslide to your arteries, and poor oral hygiene is a risk factor for arterial plaque (they've literally. found oral bacteria IN THE ARTERIAL PLAQUE IT'S WILD).

testosteronefemme

yeah lowkey had a stress induced manic episode with psychotic features, and really don't think the 12 hours of pressured speech occurring on the same day as my body overriding my IUD (which is meant to stop my periods lmao) is a coincidence.

Angel Hungers

I have to echo the frustration and disappointment other listeners have expressed regarding moiras condescension and dismissiveness in this episode regarding women choosing to track their cycles/women who feel disabled by their periods. Also she’s operating on a huge contradiction: she says her period was disruptive enough to merit her decision to take hormonal BC, thus arguing periods are disruptive to women’s lives, then she mocks women for feeling besieged by their cycles and turning to a more holistic approach to try to manage the discomfort and pain, claiming its anti feminist to feel disrupted by period pain/mood swings etc. her bullheaded defense of hormonal BC over all other forms of management also speaks to a damning euro centric POV: she mocks cycle tracking but wud she mock traditional Chinese medicine and acupuncture (which views the body as a shifting whole and one’s period as a total body event) when used to manage pain? It also speaks

Angel Hungers

Also I wish more attention had been paid to the very valid reasons women feel unseen by/afraid of big pharma, like hello johnson and Johnson $8 billion pelvic mesh lawsuit where women’s organs were punctured…. The snark felt belittling