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Page 1445 (Patreon)

Published:
2023-04-14 11:44:54
Imported:
2026-06
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Baby steps...

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Anonymous

Maybe it’s just me but I don’t feel that this is a huge thing to ask. After all, it’s not like she’s saying it can never happen, just requesting he stay focused on exams that are really important to his future

rickettyuncles

I wish Jane could channel the trust in Charlie's judgment she's shown occasionally (e.g. when he asked to go out for a drive after the big dinner with Nick's dad). Jane's offer makes sense to her, but seriously, even for GCSEs, does Charlie need to study 7 days a week? I think Alice has written a very believable Discussion Part Two scene tho-we've seen Jane rue an over-reaction and be both reasonable *and* a worry wart before

Anonymous

Tbh, I don't feel like I get all of the hate towards Jane. I say this as someone around Alice's age, with fairly relaxed parents and from the US though. Now that I have more friends and peers who are parents I can see the huge responsibility (and often stress) they have being a parent, working, plus any other caregiving or other responsibilities they have. Jane seems to be juggling 3 kids of different ages and needs, a partner relationship, work, extended family, beyond her personal needs. (I'm honestly a little concerned from a couples-perspective that Julio isn't as involved from what we can see. I hope he's not a parent who wants to leave any emotionally hard topic or discipline for the other. They really need to get on the same page and approach parenting from a united force.) Jane definitely has had really not-great-parent moments in the past, but idk I feel like that's something that just happens? Everyone loses their cool every so often, and it sucks when you're a parent and you lose your temper at your kid- but (assuming it's nothing verbally or physically abusive of course) it's about making sure that's not a regular occurrence and what you do to make it right after. I honestly don't think Jane's approach is all that strict, at least in the US. the Springs are balancing the needs and structure for late teenagers plus a 10 year old. And honestly since Charlie has OCD, an ED in recovery, and I'm not sure what else officially (anxiety?), structure is something super valuable to his health! And as responsible as Charlie seems to us, everyone's prefrontal context is still developing in their teens and is responsible for prioritizing and good decision making. Tldr - It seems like Jane is an average Mom who makes mistakes, tries her best but with some challenging circumstances. But I hope she and Julio are in couples therapy!

boombroadcast
>>106390931

Yes! I’m also around your (and Alice’s) age, and I’ve always had a close relationship with my parents. But like most families, we had some rough moments in my teen years where tempers ran high…. which I feel taken out of context might have made them look irredeemably terrible and sinister to some here? (ETA: I don’t say this to excuse or minimize the harm Jane’s caused Charlie in the past. Just to agree that all parents have shitty moments, and the best we can hope for is that they own them and actively work on doing better… which seems to be the direction Jane’s headed.🤞🏼) And yes, Charlie is a really smart (and “sensible”!) young person… but he’s still only 16, and he’s had a really tumultuous year. Like, at his lowest point he was at risk of losing his life. He absolutely deserves his parents’ trust and respect (and he deserves his boyfriend sleepover!!), but it does not feel outrageous to me that Jane and Julio would want to impose some structure during his recovery? I’m honestly slightly confused by some comments suggesting that because Charlie’s a good student, his parents are silly to worry. I imagine Charlie’s relatively good health right now still feels tenuous, and that it would be very hard for a caring parent to just… shut off their fears after the traumatic year he’s had. I mentioned this in another thread, but I too was a “responsible” and studious teenager, who still really struggled with my mental health and needed parental support to set boundaries and keep myself healthy. idk, obviously my take on this is *totally* colored by my personal experiences lol. In any event, the way Alice has depicted this relationship - and both Charlie’s and Jane’s growth - has felt quite realistic. And these past few pages have moved me. 🥲💕 (And yes, therapy for all the Springs pls)

Dani

I like that we are getting that we’re getting these moments between them. And I totally understand where both of them are coming from. I also think I would totally trust Charlie, he makes good grades, is up for head boy, Charlie is a good responsible kid. I respect where janes coming from though… with him being sick. But as someone with mental health issues I wouldn’t want a bad moment to completely dictate my life. Very well done Alice, beautiful work as always.

Steven
>>106390931

To fully understand the level of hate towards Jane by a lot of the fandom, you have to have read the novels 'Nick and Charlie,' 'This Winter,' etc. She is a terrible mum period. The question, however, is all of what she did in the novels canon to the primary Heartstopper graphic novel? She wrote the novels before she did the Heartstopper graphic novels. She hasn't said it isn't canon, so until she does, Jane is a terrible mother.

Anonymous
>>106390931

Yes, I had some similar experiences! I seemed like a 'smart' kid who did well in school, but I had lots of budding undiagnosed mental health issues and I also struggled with always making good decisions in the moment when the less wise option was really enticing. I definitely was not prioritizing sleep, and spending too much time online I feel like part of parenting is assessing your kids and giving them more autonomy over time, but still checking in and getting more involved if they are struggling or the situation calls for it (high risk, consequential, etc).

boombroadcast
>>106390931

I totally relate and agree! Embarrassingly enough, my sleep schedule was perhaps the #1 source of conflict between me and my parents lol. Sometimes I felt they were being controlling (I *wanted* to believe I could deal with my issues on my own), and at times they of course could have handled things better, but… it’s really hard!

Anonymous

I really love this conversation, Alice. So many of us have sometimes difficult relationships with parents, and it’s so nice to see parents take steps towards truly understanding and supporting their kids. Appreciate you immensely!

Sarah Parot

The parents must have had quite the conversation while Charlie was gone! Really impressed they manage to process Jane's feelings and come on out of the earlier fight this calm :D she hasn't even talked about the fact he ran from the house and came back on the evening :o

Noemiette
>>106388640

But Jane isnt forbidding Charlie to see Nick for weeks. She just said not yet to sleepovers to avoid change of routines before a big exam. He will still be able to spend time with Nick and not have to study every hour of every day

Sarah G

Oof, this is such complex stuff, and the discussion in these comments is so productive and amazing, with so many personal perspectives shared freely and so much generosity for Jane, for Charlie, and for Alice (!) of course. I want to just say how grateful I am for the good vibes in this group. I find this part of the story a bit triggering, only because I clearly need to process some of the comparable episodes from my (distant) teenage years still...So many of these ideas about teen sex, how much parents should allow and in what ways, etc. are so generational and cultural. One thing I am sure of: teen sex is not going to go away if parents are restrictive, and there is always the chance of damaging their sense of self and their relationship to their sexuality this way. I am curious to see how Jane and Charlie navigate this with each other. I think they are both trying, fwiw. Thank you, Alice!!

RCM
>>106406454

Appreciate all of this. And I agree, teen sex is going to happen with or without parental support. So, it is an opportunity for parents to help navigate a healthy sense of self along with their teen, or to potentially really damage that with layers of guilt and shame. Sadly, I think most parents want the best for the kids but get caught up in the “act,” forgetting to step back, pause, and think through how they felt as a teen, how to talk about safe sex, and how to help their teen decide if they really are ready or not. It’s all complicated and hard, and these pages have shown how much discussion can be shared after reading together. Can you imagine the potential if Heartstopper was read as a family?! (And also Loveless…there is a lot of damage parents can do when they don’t understand asexuality).

Sarah G
>>106406454

As usual, I agree, RCM! And mark my words, I will be reading the HS books with my kid when she's old enough.

Ryan Brown

Controlling, manipulative and toxic parenting from Jane.

Anonymous

I remember the whole 'no sharing a bed with a boyfriend under my roof' scenario which so many of my generation grew up experiencing, parents shaming sex from the outset. I imagine Jane experienced these kind of controlling conversations with her own parents so I actually think she is doing pretty well here, trying to move forward and take the steps that are manageable for her at the moment.

Mrs Spb
>>106406454

Agree with RCM too! We are watching/reading as a family for all these reasons but I’m nervous to introduce the ED storyline. It’s all done so sympathetically and mainly off screen/off page but still not sure if it’s appropriate age wise yet. And dealing with my own baggage around ED here too 😩

RCM
>>106406454

I share that ED baggage with you…and trust me, you will know when it’s the right time to broach it with your kids. One of my kids needed to hear my struggle pretty early in their elementary because of some bullying triggers. I’ve found that I do prefer to share some things with my kids earlier than “normal” (whatever that is) so they know that I’ve walked through some hard stuff, and that there is NOTHING they could experience that I cannot handle helping them with, or worse, scare me off from loving them. I think that is one of many reasons I love Alice’s books…their characters are so real that they act like a mirror, helping us look inside ourselves, if we are willing to see.

Sarah G
>>106406454

I'll back you up on the idea of sharing things "early"--it's amazing how soon in their development and social world kids can run into these issues. There was disordered eating behavior around me from a pretty early age among school friends, and I definitely had some around the age of 14, but didn't know it until I learned more about ED issues later. I think it's better to know about these things (at an age-appropriate level of explanation) before they show up, if possible.

Victoria Elliot

i just wanna say, for all those saying we should "feel for jane" like yes i agree completely. she was traumatize. But i feel more for charlie. for someone who also has a mother like jane...it's very difficult to forgive that kin of parenting. being yelled at is normal as a child right...but for so many things to the point where he can't even trust himself/feel like everything he does is wrong...charlie shouldn't have to forgive her fully. its painful growing up in fear

Mrs Spb
>>106406454

Thank you @RCM and @Sarah G for your comments and support! You sound like amazing parents ❤️ I’ve always been an early sharer with my kids as much as possible but they’re all under 10 so it feels too young. We already talk about ‘everything’ as much as possible, I’m just worried that watching Charlie’s journey might trigger a different feeling towards food for them, even though I have no doubt it will be dealt with so well and so appropriately and that it’s so important. I’m gonna watch it first and then I’ll decide. Just trying not to be overprotective due to my issues. Plus I’ve never really seen an ED storyline that plays out on tv done properly, which I know this will be.